Israel supporting counter marches in London - about time

[mids2019]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13304895/Met-Police-arrest-Palestine-Israel-march-London-protest-Gaza.html

I think in a democracy this is absolutely necessary. Obviously policing will be important but it is good to see that in terms of street protest this is not a come sided issue.

I wonder how many are going to be arrested losing their rag seeing Israeli flags an masse after getting themselves riled up calling for a ceasefire.....

Professor Avi Shlaim talks about the Zionist involvement in Iraqi Jews leaving Iraq after the creation of Israel in his autobiography. Here's a lecture he gave at Oxford discussing the events at the time.
https://podcasts.ox.ac.uk/zionism-and-jews-iraq-personal-perspective

Full withdrawal from the occupied territories.

Which are?

Because some count the entirety of Israel as occupied territories.

Noblegiraffe I find you so intimidating. Everything I say needs to be justified constantly. How about you turn the question round- so, you have an Israeli state and loads of financial support from around the world. What now? Why are you building illegal settlements? Why are you bulldozing homes. Why are you even denying rainwater to Palestinians? And so on.

It's not in dispute that Palestinian was a term that could be used to refer to any people from that region prior to 1948. It was co-opted and redefined in the 60's as a distinct national identity by a movement aimed to bring Palestinians as a cohesive group into opposition with Israel. It was a way of denying Jewish ethnic, cultural and ancestral presence in the land, when previous to that, being called a Palestinian was used as an antisemitic slur in other ME and NA countries.

Why won't you answer what you count as occupied territories that you want Israel to withdraw from?

Why are you building illegal settlements? Why are you bulldozing homes. Why are you even denying rainwater to Palestinians?

I'm not doing any of that and I certainly don't support it.

This is something I wonder about when it comes to Zionism. Israel has been created it is a homeland for Jews across the world so why still the need for a Zionist movement. I am not trying to insult or offend anyone with that question it comes from genuine interest but most likely a place of ignorance that needs to be educated

The West Bank and Gaza and the Golan Heights.
So what now noblegiraffe?

Do you see me as some sort of terrorist?
Do I frighten you? Why so much scrutiny?
Let me give you the two answers that you would be happy with and then you can get off my back.

1. I think that all Jews have/ had the right to come over and take the whole of Palestine. Of course there was nobody there and they made the land flourish. Then those nasty Arabians/ Muslims got so jealous and lied and said they lived there all along. I think we should kill these people by bombing the shit out of them and starving them. After all we are only human animals.
2. Jews are vile people and should be exterminated. We want to kill them all from the river to the sea. I hate all Jews.

Do you see me as some sort of terrorist?

I don't see you as anything apart from a poster on MN who occasionally makes batshit over-the-top replies to me. wtf.

@Dulra. Exactly. Your question is not insulting. They have their state. I don't agree with the way it was set up but it's here. It's the fact that they want more and more. Enough is enough.

I'd assume it's because of the existential threat facing Israel?

So from your perspective the only reason Palestinians were brought together as a cohesive group was to oppose Israel and deny Jews an ethnic, cultural and ancestral presence in the land, and previous to that, being called a Palestinian was used as an antisemitic slur in other ME and NA countries
Seriously?

The only batshit reply I have to you noble giraffe is my last one.
You have been scrutinising everything I have said constantly.

Gave

Yes fair enough and others view it as a movement to increase Israel's current territory which is the illegal settlements,

Is there a zionist movement as such? As I understand it zionism is just the belief in a jewish homeland. Given the huge threat to that homeland and its right to exist, and, as MN demobstrates, constant need to justify it, zionism is an active 'thing' . However much of the debate in & out of israel is actually about how the state operates - from clarifying the constitutional position, religious v secular and indeed the boundaries. None of that is about zionism as such. As you say, Israel exists and anti-zionist jews are quite a minority. I guess if they dont believe in Israel they dont have to live there.

*have
Bloody autocorrect

I think I've interacted with you twice. The other time you accused me of Israeli propaganda.

I saw something on twitter today which was a protest against Netanyahu in Israel - the caption was something about 'Israelis (not Zionists) protesting'. Which was baffling, because why would people who don't believe in Israel as a state live in Israel?

I think some people think 'Zionist' means 'Netanyahu supporter'.

No that's obviously not the sole reason, don't be daft.
Do you also have relatives' direct experiences of what it was like to live as Jews in the area during that period that you'd like to contribute?

Is there a zionist movement as such?
It was when it was first created in the late 19th century. Information I have seen now describes Zionism as an ideology that supports the development and protection of the State of Israel as a Jewish state. I think this is where people get confused and wrongly assume it means the continued expansion of the Jewish state thus justifying the illegal settlements

Do you also have relatives' direct experiences of what it was like to live as Jews in the area during that period that you'd like to contribute?
Obviously not, don't be daft. Your post just read so negatively about Palestinians

Yes that makes no sense and makes it even more confusing

I think Israelis feel under threat ( with verygood reason obviously). Palestinians also felt under threat but the threat they faced has now become a hellish reality.
We are fortunate not to feel threatened in this country but we all need to work hard to make sure it remains that way for us all. When people feel threatened they vote for extremist “ hard men” types ( Netanyahu/ Hamas) . I don’t want anyone here feeling threatened and creating the polarisation we see in other countries.
( I honestly think that some men are not very good at overcoming their caveman testosterone response to threat and I wish women - particularly mothers who are invested into the next generation- had more of a say . Perhaps I’m being naive though- I know many women can be as aggressive and racist as men . )

Well from reading the posts since this one, zionist seems to mean whatever people want it to mean. Everyone has their own personal version and only their version is right.