Israel supporting counter marches in London - about time

[mids2019]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13304895/Met-Police-arrest-Palestine-Israel-march-London-protest-Gaza.html

I think in a democracy this is absolutely necessary. Obviously policing will be important but it is good to see that in terms of street protest this is not a come sided issue.

I wonder how many are going to be arrested losing their rag seeing Israeli flags an masse after getting themselves riled up calling for a ceasefire.....

Support for the Houthis is mainly self-harming given the COL crisis!

The Houthi slogan is “God Is the Greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, A Curse Upon the Jews, Victory to Islam” so I think that supporting them is also arguably antisemitic.

Ah, fair enough!

I have been marching in the Jewish bloc from the very first peace/ ceasefire protest and have never felt unsafe or experienced anti-Semitism until the last march on 30th March: helping out at family section after the marich ended, where kids were colouring in, making clay candle holders and blowing balloons, a middle aged woman walked over and started shaking her head at the family groups and snapping photos and videos. I went up to her, introduced myself and asked her to seek consent before taking photos of The children. she started saying that she is a mother and grandmother and has friends in Israel and she feels unsafe in her city... I was patient though when she dramatically opened her shirt to reveal a red t-shirt with 'being them home now's and started barking to others walking over to see what's what: ' I'm a Zionist and you all are terrorist supporters' that rattled some, particularly two medics with MSf who had been to Gaza and the West bank and witnessed atrocities for many years. I took her to the side and calmly explained that my father is also a self-concefessed Zionist and why I am adamantly against their colonial ideologies, and that there are many Jews marching today etc she began to hiss at me, called me 'a self-hating jew' and how my family 'must be ashamed of you're and 'I know I would not talk to my children if they turned into terrorists' then walked off as I stood there, shocked and sincerely deeply wounded. This has made me accutely aware of my safety, who I choose to confront and I have since made sure I am always with fellow protesters and never confront anyone on my own. My experience beyond this one of the 'counter protests' is that the group's are significantly smaller but they are there to provoke, to incite anger and an aggressive response. I am also ashamed to be connected with any 'pro-israeli' groups and hate the consistent conflation of Judaism with Zionism and Israel.

“Ceasefire now! Except for you Hezbollah! And you, Houthis! Death to Israel and a curse upon the Jews is all about context! Iranian regime- fire away! Hamas leaders exhorting the annihilation of the Zionists, seriously, no pressure, you’re all good!”

I don’t know, it just doesn’t have quite the same ring to it.

OT but can you explain something? I have seen pro-Palestinian posters being berated for using the term Jews (non-aggressively). Yet you have used the term freely when others have been instructed to say ‘Jewish people’. Is there any consensus on this?

I support any peaceful protests. My son’s friend went on a short ceasefire protest the other week alongside a pro-Israel one a few weeks ago in Camden. He said his group were protesting for a ceasefire and chanting generally. Whereas the pro-Israel group were shouting at them in their faces and it was quite intimidating and personal.

I don’t think people should be personally threatening each other, whatever the cause. I hope everyone can protest peacefully and support their right to do so.

I am so sorry about your experience. I have attended the parents for Palestine activities with my children a few times and I am so grateful for all the lovely people who help each week. It matters so much! If that helps, I have been called the same things, and much worse for years for standing up for Palestinians' rights, to the point that I stopped identifying as Jewish. I now just say I'm from a Jewish background. I have been called a kapo for saying I stand against genocide as I was taught to do, and I had people tell me my family (mostly Zionists) should be captured by Hamas. I used to find it hurtful, but it is honestly from people that carry such hatred and such feelings of supremacy that it doesn't bother me anymore. I wouldn't want to be associated with aggressive, racist, ignorant people in any way. On a good note, I have met so many lovely, empathetic, inspiring Jews in the pro-Palestine movement, of all ages and backgrounds, and I find a lot of comfort in sharing my experiences. I wish you find the same!

Iran = bad country, massive threat to peace in the Middle East and treating civilians particularly women badly.

Iran attacks Israel and suddenly to some/many is seen as good.

I'm glad The US supports Israel.

@NearJohnLewis

I hope no offence was given. I think Ultimately it is the right to peaceful protest and ideally booth groups of marchers could hold common ground. I think from an Israeli perspective it might be seen as a support for the state of Israel and symbolic of the state existing. It is just good in the UK to have a range of views and there may be those who wish hostages be returned.

most of the pro Palestini an supporters wish a ceasefire which I am sure Israelis want.

maybe their are similarities?

There are limits to US support- from Biden to Netanyahu:

• "You got a win. Take the win," Biden told Netanyahu, according to the official.
• The official said that when Biden told Netanyahu that the U.S. will not participate in any offensive operations against Iran and will not support such operations, Netanyahu said he understood.
• U.S. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin spoke on Saturday with his Israeli counterpart Yoav Gallant and asked that Israel notify the U.S. ahead of any response against Iran, a senior Israeli official said.

Hopefully Israel will not push US to reveal their hands about extent of their support.

https://www.axios.com/2024/04/14/biden-netanyahu-iran-israel-us-wont-support

Than you, and I have too! Lost some friends, gained some and for those remaining relationship, the connection has deepened. I am sorry for your experiences and the distancing you do/ feel with regards to your Jewish identity. It is a shame to let go of part of yourself for, as you put it, a group that carries such hatred and sense of superiority. Here's to anti-Semitism Jews and free Palestine.

@StormyAprilSkies
agree Iran is a destabilising force in ME. But do you think Israel’s potential war crimes in Gaza / Syria and current lack of actions against settlers burning villages in the West Bank is helping to stabilise the ME?

Iran attacks Israel and suddenly to some/many is seen as good.
You mean Israel attacked an Iranian ambassy in another country, 2 weeks ago? Israel, in effect, directly attacked Iran. Iran just defended themselves. After all, the right of self defence applies to every recognize state; or is it just when it is Israel? Once again, the double standard!
By the way, I do not support Iran.

Here's to anti-Semitism Jews

@Pumpkinatmidnight What on Earth does this even mean?

I would hope so. The extremists everywhere often shout the loudest and unfortunately get the media time.

👏👏

Yes I wondered that

. It is a shame to let go of part of yourself for, as you put it, a group that carries such hatred and sense of superiority. Here's to anti-Semitism Jews and free Palestine

Seems even worse in context. Hopefully an unfortunate typo but it would be good to hear some clarification from the poster.

Yes, it does. The whole statement contains some rather unpleasant and prejudiced intimations.

Anti-zionist
My predictive text just changed that to anti-social!

Yes a typo --I myself was confused seeing that lol
the 'anti' of Antizionist predicted as a host of different things including antisemitic, anti-social, abortionist... Though ime are none of these!

Wow, OK. Not really seeing the "lols" here. Thanks for clarifying although I can't say that that improves your statement an awful lot.

Typos aside, the name calling, personal attacks and antagonistic confrontations myself and a significant portion of fellow anti-zionist Jewish individuals and groups have experienced is pretty unpleasant to say the least. I agree there should be room for all peaceful protests. I do however question the peaceful intent of these pro-Israel protests. Whilst one group call for the cessation of mass punishment and forced starvation, An end to the killing of thousands upon thousands of children and their families, 75 years of occupation that began with the massacres of entire villages (complete with systematic rape of women and children as proudly shared in first hand accounts by the perpetrators)... The counter protest calls for continued bloodshed..? Right to strike three neighbouring countries simultaneously? A right to occupy and suppress the host community of the land they have colonised? From the creation of Zionism there have been Jews (orthodox and secular) who fundamentally disagreed with it's supremacist ideologies. I grew up with a myth of A Land Without A People etc and was genuinely shocked to learn that there were people already on this land, to meet Palestinians with generational traumas of displacement and discrimination not so different to my own family's history.