Israel supporting counter marches in London - about time

[mids2019]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13304895/Met-Police-arrest-Palestine-Israel-march-London-protest-Gaza.html

I think in a democracy this is absolutely necessary. Obviously policing will be important but it is good to see that in terms of street protest this is not a come sided issue.

I wonder how many are going to be arrested losing their rag seeing Israeli flags an masse after getting themselves riled up calling for a ceasefire.....

@Mags48

But should the right to protest always trump the harm it causes to society.

Take the Just Stop Oil campaign- yes most people would support their right to protest but would you support their right to close motorways and if so for how long - a day a week a month?

A society that allows a minority to continually legally disrupt the lives of the majority is simply anarchy.

Nope still waiting.

I hope it's not because the majority of protesters do indeed sympathise or support Hamas and their terrorists actions despite the denials.

My point about recording was the man said he was going to follow him and record GF’s movements. Isn’t this what GF was doing- following people and recording them? it did sound intimidating though and it would have been interesting to hear what the prior conversation / events were that led to this altercation. Like you said- lots of people appear to record things on these marches, but I would find it unnerving to have a camera trained on me- even if I was doing nothing wrong!

I am not condoning any racism and nor any use of offensive terms, but at the point the police asked him not to walk against the crowd- there was no evidence of aggression towards GF according to his video clip.

People should be able to walk alongside the marches whatever their race or religion. It is a shame a minority cause problems when by far most people are peacefully expressing their concerns to our politicians.

When you sell something to someone they give you the money. If you stop selling you get no money.

I am glad the demonstration has moved to Hyde park as it would appear to be more manageable and less disruptive. We can then have people being lonely Jewish on the streets.

It is quite obvious the police may be getting the balance a bit wrong so changing venue and possibly numbers seems sensible.

I believe that the request to move to Hyde Park has come from Palestine Solidarity Canpaign. They’ve been requesting the space for months due to the sheer volume of people protesting the genocide.

Perhaps the pro-Israeli crowd can have Parliament Square? It can fit 50 people.

I think a move to Hyde Park is pre-emptive in way. I guess people will still enjoy the park whatever. Anyway a good thing as people can go on about their business in the city centre.

I suppose one has to question the point of demonstrations of they aren't near the Israeli embassy or Downing Street? Who is the audience for the protestors? People having picnics? Joggers?

I think a move from the streets to parkland is welcome but it should be admitted that maybe like anything the momentum is starting to go from these things.

@Mags48 you seem to have missed answering this question.

I suppose one has to question the point of demonstrations of they aren't near the Israeli embassy or Downing Street? Who is the audience for the protestors? People having picnics? Joggers?

You really want the demonstrations to be about something else other than protesting a genocide don’t you?

Let’s be careful not to upset the joggers and people having picnics.

I have not been on a protest so it would be arrogant of me to guess why everybody is protesting and what are they wanting.

However, if I did go on a protest, it would be against my government in this country. It would not be about terrorist organisations like Hamas in other countries. As I do not think in a million years, murderers like Hamas would listen to me.

I would protest against the UK government’s support of the Israel government and asking my government (that I did not vote for) to support a ceasefire. Because the only sliver of hope I have would be to be a UK citizen asking something of the UK government.

There is no point me protesting against Hamas and asking them to free hostages as they would not give a shit about my opinion.

Of course I want the terrorists freed and I despise Hamas. But my protest would be against the UK government to try and make them listen. And to make me feel as if I had some tiny bit of influence over the ongoing atrocities. That’s my take anyway. I cannot speak for others.

That is exactly why I protest. To send a message to the government. Of course I want the hostages freed but they have only ever been freed during a ceasefire.

Netanyahu rejected the last deal Hamas put to them which would have resulted in the release of the hostages, because he is more interested now in destroying Hamas than securing the release of the hostages. I want the UK government to pressure him into securing their release and rebuilding Gaza for Gazans (not Israelis) to live in.

Very well said. I agree.

You'd have thought that this would be an easy question to answer.

It seems that some people are so wedded to taking sides that they are unable to bring themselves to.

@NearJohnLewis

Firstly thank you for being the only poster to answer this question and explaining your reasoning and logic of protesting in the UK as a UK citizen asking for something from a UK Government, which makes perfect sense.

Whilst of course neither of us know the true motives of those attending the marches, I still find it deeply unsettling that out of the hundreds of thousands that attend there are none condemning Hamas. Yes Hamas are highly unlikely to listen to the concerns or criticism by marchers in London however there are plenty of protesters willing to openly condemn the Israeli Government who are equally highly unlikely to listen to the concerns or criticism by marchers.

It is strange that despite on every thread posters are anonymously willing to condemn or claim to condemn the actions of Hamas yet in real life at protests out of the hundreds of thousands of protesters there are literally none willing to do this in person.

I can only conclude that this is because they would like to but are too scared to do so for fear of being attacked (as happened to the Iranian man) or that in reality a large number are indeed sympathetic and supportive of Hamas. Or a combination of both.

Either way it doesn't reflect well on the "peaceful " marches that there is an element of intimidation (say the right thing or get beaten up) and or that a large number are terrorist sympathisers/ supporters.

I would really hope that most didn’t support Hamas. As much as I deplore what the Israeli government is doing right now, I am also utterly appalled by Hamas. I don’t think anyone cares about ordinary Palestinians and have said that from the start. Including Hamas.

I also would not direct my protest at the Israeli government. I am sure they also don’t give a shit about my opinion.

I would hope Sunak et al would listen. As they are our government. Though by this stage, I dont think the government cares about the protests at all. It’s all white noise.

Maybe the protests give some people a sense of doing ‘something’ though. So I would not want them to be forced to stop really, as long as it’s peaceful.

If there was a way of protesting without Jewish people feeling threatened, that would be much much better. Unfortunately I can’t see it happening though.

@NearJohnLewis

It seems now that you have provided a logical answer to my question (which to be clear on I think you are sincere about) other posters now seem to claim this is also their rationale.

This seems odd because if everyone is claiming that they are simply trying to influence the UK Gov then why are there so many placards condemning the Israeli Gov. Instead you'd think that all the placards would about condemning UK Gov actions/ inactions / complicity.

I am really starting to see that they are either too scared to carry placards condemning Hamas or are sympathetic or supportive of Hamas.

I am a Christian Palestinian. I have no desire to see a religious group in power in Palestine. I believe in a secular state. I march for a ceasefire. I march to stop illegal land appropriation. I march to stop arming Israel. I march to stop ethnic cleansing and genocide.
I am not anti semitic. I am anti Zionist. They are not the same thing.
However, I have said this before, I refuse to justify my beliefs. I have spent most of my life explaining and justifying myself in order to be listened to. I WILL NOT do that anymore. You will only take me seriously if I condemn Hamas? The reason I stay silent on this is because I rarely see any Zionist or anti Palestinian being asked to condemn illegal land theft, settler violence or IDF atrocities before being listened to. Treat me equally.

@NearJohnLewis

"I would really hope that most didn’t support Hamas"

Worryingly it is becoming clear to me that most are either too scared to condemn Hamas publicly, don't really care about what Hamas is doing / has done to Israelis and Palestinians, don't even know about Hamas or are sympathetic / supportive of Hamas.

I’ve never met anybody that supports Hamas. The reason I don’t make a placard about Hamas is that I’m busy holding my children’s hands who are holding signs saying “stop killing kids” and “free Palestine”. Or carrying my smallest when they are tired. I’m also more interested in protesting against an ongoing genocide that decent people find appalling. 35,000 + dead. 18 children were killed by the IDF in the last 24 hours in Rafah. I find that disgusting. Are you keeping up with what’s happing in Rafah and the violet settler attacks in the West Bank?

I find it worrying that people obsess over the rights of joggers and people having picnics, than the atrocities taking place this very second. What a world we live in.

most are either too scared to condemn Hamas publicly, don't really care about what Hamas is doing / has done to Israelis and Palestinians, don't even know about Hamas or are sympathetic / supportive of Hamas.

But how do you know this? I really try not to guess people’s thoughts and intentions. So I would never say something like pro-Israel posters don’t care about Palestinian kids dying. Because I do not know that and it’s unfair. We cannot make assumptions on how thousands of strangers really think.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-04-21-2024-8c027f2587c2c433d0fde41b63a0e0c3

18 children. Horrific. I hope everyone condemns these attacks.