Israel supporting counter marches in London - about time

[mids2019]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13304895/Met-Police-arrest-Palestine-Israel-march-London-protest-Gaza.html

I think in a democracy this is absolutely necessary. Obviously policing will be important but it is good to see that in terms of street protest this is not a come sided issue.

I wonder how many are going to be arrested losing their rag seeing Israeli flags an masse after getting themselves riled up calling for a ceasefire.....

Have you watched the footage?

At least the point has been made that London at times has become a no go some for Jews and I think we should be ashamed. It is distressing to see the number of posters who claim having a skull cap is provocative because where does this end? Should Jews maybe contact the police before going shopping or such like? This is shameful.

We need to take stock and look at the antagonism that is being caused between UK citizens from a foreign war. There are strong feelings out there but no need for hate towards members of our communities.

To be fair, the officer does state that he will have to go the long way round, like many other people. At the start of the video. I think I would just do what the police asked if they asked me to walk another way and I don't agree that he should have argued for so long about crossing (or as the officer said, walking against the flow of the crowd) at that particular point. Particularly as the officer stated they were asking many other people to go around rather than through the march.

But has there actually been any violence on these marches towards Israeli supporters? I’ve been to a fair few of them and they’ve always been extremely peaceful. The people I’ve spoken to have always been clear in their ability to discern between Zionist colonialism and Judaism itself.

And I don’t think the marches have had no effect. They’ve sent a clear message to the rest of the world that our leaders are out of step with the people. Hundreds of thousands turn up every weekend across the world to call for peace. It’s actually quite incredible.

You positively compare Falter to Robinson?

That is a regrettable comment. I doubt you really mean it. I think you should ask for it to be removed.

Tommy Robinson is a violent, far-right, antisemite, Islamophobe, fascist thug who's been jailed howevermany times, not to mention founder of the racist EDL and former member of the BNP. Gideon Falter? He's from the Campaign Against Antisemitism and was walking home after being at the synagogue.

Fuck sake this is so depressing.

@mids2019 I'm not denying that there are clear issues that need to be addressed. But I still do think it's hypocritical to start a thread for the purpose of advocating counter marches whilst saying other marches should be banned.

But has there actually been any violence on these marches towards Israeli supporters?

Ask the Iranian guy who protests against Hamas.

Why? I’m comparing them in the sense that both have turned up to Palestinian marches to provoke and antagonise the protesters. Both were asked to leave by the Met.

@mids2019
@Parkingt111

"@mids2019
Enough is enough. End the marches.

Isn't this hypocritical considering you started a thread advocating counter marches?

This is a valid point by @parking111. Personally I don't see what value either the protests or the counter protests are achieving. It's not as though they are going to change the situation on the ground for either the Palestinians or the Israelis.

All they are doing is polarising and entrenching views on both sides making any peaceful solution or compromise that much harder to achieve. They are also creating further division within UK society (when there is already enough) and increasing levels of anti semitism and Islamophobia causing further problems in UK society.

@noblegiraffe

"Luckily there's video, so some things are indisputable"

Unfortunately opinions are becoming so polarised I don't think video footage means that events still won't be disputed.

But has there actually been any violence on these marches towards Israeli supporters?

Yes. And filmed.

The counter marches are probably a result of the large pro Palestinian marches so in a way I am glad a wider perspective can be seen. Overall I hope we reach a situation where the marches aren't needed as I agree the marches are ingraining hatred within our society.

Would you advocate stopping the marches if the majority of people supported Israel and had been protesting for 6 months?

@noblegiraffe

"So the problem really was that he wanted to cross the road through the protest while looking Jewish and this apparently counts as 'trying to cause trouble'?

No flags, no chants, just looking Jewish?"

I think there are two points here:

1. Trying to walk across the middle of a protest march regardless of how you look is disruptive behaviour . Yes it's a pain but sorry you just have to go the long way round.
2. the "visibly Jewish" part where the police officer felt that violence could occur if he did walk across the march because he looked "visibly Jewish ". I feel sorry for the police officer who was acting with the man's safety in mind rather than any anti semitism.

The real issue as I see it is as the police officer admitted "unfortunately so", that it was not safe for someone to look visibly Jewish in the proximity of the march.

I completely agree. But what concerned me (and the police officer) was the growing crowd threatening the man.

Yep - they would equally be divisive to UK society and fuel anti semitism and Islamophobia.

the "visibly Jewish" part where the police officer felt that violence could occur if he did walk across the march because he looked "visibly Jewish ". I feel sorry for the police officer who was acting with the man's safety in mind rather than any anti semitism

The police officer was correct that there was a threat of violence towards the man because he was Jewish. That was evident from the reaction of protestors.

The big problem is that people have been saying for 6 months that Jews had no reason to be concerned and that these marches pose no threat towards them. Obviously this has been a lie. The police have admitted it, the video demonstrates it.

I imagine that many Jews have felt gaslighted over this. No denying it now.

The issue with the police isn't that they have correctly identified the threat to his safety, but that they threaten to arrest him because there is a threat to his safety.

I agree.
Regardless of whether he was being provocative and disruptive- there was a clear suggestion that he was particularly at risk because he was “visibly Jewish “ rather than just being “an annoying git “.
And that is not acceptable.

Gaslighting? Oh the irony 😂

@noblegiraffe

"The issue with the police isn't that they have correctly identified the threat to his safety, but that they threaten to arrest him because there is a threat to his safety."

There was a growing hostile crowd around the man. The police wanted him out of the area before violence broke out, the police admitted that they didn't have the numbers to protect him. Rather than just allow him to be lynched if he still refused to be escorted out of the area the only alternative would be to arrest him to get him out of the area. Not great but I don't know what else the police officer could have done.

I thought you weren't replying to my posts anymore? Didn't you decide that I was Hasbara? Or have you realised what a monumentally stupid thing that was to say?

Was that on the long video? I will have to watch again. I think the officer did say on the video that nobody shouted at the man while he was there. But will have another watch. Yes, the police have a hard and thankless job, so I don't support arguing with them when directed to walk a different way.

That may be true, but it's not a great look, is it?

It's like when the Iranian guy was attacked for his Hamas are Terrorists sign, and the police arrested him instead of the people who attacked him.

There are a lot of concerns being raised around the policing of these marches. The marchers aren't helping by being hostile and/or violent.

Thank you for responding. Do you think gatherings in one place would be better and less disruptive? How do we voice dissent in a way that doesn’t add fuel to divison? I think it’s important to do so if we can.