Israel supporting counter marches in London - about time

[mids2019]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13304895/Met-Police-arrest-Palestine-Israel-march-London-protest-Gaza.html

I think in a democracy this is absolutely necessary. Obviously policing will be important but it is good to see that in terms of street protest this is not a come sided issue.

I wonder how many are going to be arrested losing their rag seeing Israeli flags an masse after getting themselves riled up calling for a ceasefire.....

I don't think it's escaped anyone's attention as to who the person is. Answer me this, why would a Jewish man walking through the streets of London, "antagonize and provoke" protestors by the mere sight of his presence?And even If he did it ' deliberately ' to highlight the anti semitism at the protests, well he's proven his point has he not?

He was trying to walk through a crowd of thousands of people, rather than take the quiet route suggested to him by the police officers. Everybody else not part of the protest had to follow the same instructions. What did Gideon hope to achieve? What was his purpose in being there?

“I don't think it's escaped anyone's attention as to who the person is.”

I disagree with this. I didn’t see his name mentioned at all. He didn’t just stumble upon the protest. He deliberately chose to attend and then refused to listen to the police advice. The police are there to stop any troublemakers on both sides.

@1dayatatime
I re-watched the long video, but I don't see a hostile crowd surrounding him. There are people filming, and a couple of big men that he talks to, one in sunglasses and suit - but they seem to be with him.

Israel-Palestine

Israel-Palestine not Israel-Gaza

Palestinian Genocide

Palestinian genocide not Gazan genocide

Apparently Gideon Falter walked, along with his camera man and his body guard, for some hours without any issue prior to walking against the flow of the march, when a police officer suggested that this may place him at risk.

How do we assess risk? Seeing what’s happened in the past is one way.

On one of the pro-Palestinian marches in February there were 200,000 people marching and there were 12 arrests. That is 0.006%.

Not minimising the risk of feeling unsafe though and it becomes a balance of rights. Not sure as a Democratic country we want to ban protests, although do feel sympathy for Jewish people who perceive these marches as hateful.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/israeli-london-metropolitan-police-people-marble-arch-b1139757.html

Reading around about this Gideon bloke, it sounds like he was trying to provoke a reaction and cause trouble. But so what, he should have been welcomed in by the marchers and allowed to safely walk wherever he wanted, even if he'd started shouting 'death to Gaza' (not suggesting he did anything like this btw). I remember years ago there was an EDL (or something) demonstration outside a mosque. The Iman and others in the mosque brought them cups of tea and biscuits and welcomed them. A fine example to everyone.

I don't think you bothered to answer my question : why would the sight of a Jewish man antagonize and provoke the protesters? Was he waving an Israeli flag? Was he holding a placard? Was he shouting pro Israeli chants? No, a man trying to cross the street was forcefully told to leave the area because the police couldn't guarantee his safety, due to his " visible jewishness ". Why is that, why would his life be at risk from ' peaceful protesters '? There is no evidence to suggest he was there for any other reason than walking home from the synagogue.

What, did he force the people to shout Nazi and Scum at him? He wasn't walking through the protestors when they did that, so I don't think it was the walking that was the real problem, was it?

The police officers told him what the real problem was. We all know it. Trying to deny it isn't going to work.

@stormy4319trevor

Short video:

www.lbc.co.uk/news/met-police-officer-threatens-arrest-jewish-man-breach-peace-pro-palestine-march/

5:11 to 5:44

How it 'it is gaslighting to have repeatedly told Jews that they have nothing to fear from this march when demonstrably, there is?' me writing my own narrative rather than simply saying something that you don't want to hear?

The difference between the thread on main board about this and the thread on this section is quite stark.

I suspect that people who want the marches stopped are more likely to be pro-Israeli and less likely to believe a genocide is taking place whilst those who want them to continue are pro-Palestinian and are more likely to believe a genocide is taking place.

There needs to be a way for people to dissent and oppose the governmental acceptance of Israeli actions in Gaza. There has to be a legitimate way for those who believe a genocide is taking place to protest against it.

Imagine, if during the 30s there were people protesting the rise of pogroms in Europe. People need to be free to dissent.

How was this support for genocide demonstrated? What about him suggested support for genocide? I can't spot it so maybe you can help me with these visible signs that I've missed.

@noblegiraffe

"It's like when the Iranian guy was attacked for his Hamas are Terrorists sign, and the police arrested him instead of the people who attacked him."

It's interesting that no one has bothered to answer my posts on the absence of any placards condemning Hamas despite hundreds of thousands being on the marches.

I agree.

Looking visibly different, particularly when holding an opposing view to the majority, will always pose more of a risk. Whether of the choice of clothing or skin colour (!). A visible Muslim woman or visibly Jewish man will be more of a target, and especially in a place where their presence would be antagonistic. Context. If this man was in the Jewish block, his visibility would have been celebrated. The fact remains he needed protection because he clearly and visibly is against the purpose of the match and was refusing to heed sensible advise from the people in authority trying to protect him. Frankly he's a schmuck and an embarrassment, and I sympathise with the police on this occasion.

@Mags48

"Thank you for responding. Do you think gatherings in one place would be better and less disruptive? How do we voice dissent in a way that doesn’t add fuel to divison? I think it’s important to do so if we can"

Parliament Square - limited number (say 30-50), permanent presence. Well that's what the Brexit protesters did.

Or passive protest - posters in the window, car etc. Or political lobbying- writing a letter to your MP, newspaper etc.

There is the alternative approach of say Just Stop Oil of blocking roads, bridges etc but that just stops people getting to work or rushing to hospital or to funerals or to airports and just seriously pisses people off which then reduces popular support for their cause.

Thank you. I see people shouting 'Scum' and 'N-zi', but Falter is not in the shot, so I don't know who they were shouting at, or even if this is the same protest, - though clearly this is unacceptable language towards anyone. Falter is in the shot where a man tells him they will be following his movements and filming him, but I don't know whether he means during the march. Falter's camera people are clearly following people and filming them, so I'm not sure he can find that intimidating. I don't see a crowd surrounding Falter in this video either.

So, in other words march with us and you'll be protected; if you don't then it's at your own peril. What a democratic approach!

@1dayatatime But, to add, the officer clearly thought Falter was at risk and linked that to his Jewish identity. I suppose that's why I wish we could hear his perspective on things!

@1dayatatime I think the urgency of the genocide means that people feel they need to do more than passively protest. Long term that is a good tactic. But given that Gaza has been bombed daily for 6 months now and 35,000 people have been killed, I think there needs to be a way for people to voice their dissent to the government.

Next weekend the protest will be in Hyde Park which I think is a good option. The protesters will all be in one space. I wonder if Gideon will stumble upon Hyde Park next Saturday with his camera crew.

@Pumpkinatmidnight

The fact remains he needed protection because he clearly and visibly is against the purpose of the match and was refusing to heed sensible advise from the people in authority trying to protect him. Frankly he's a schmuck and an embarrassment, and I sympathise with the police on this occasion.

No he needed protection because he looked visibly Jewish. Yes he refused sensible advice from the police who were trying to protect him, but that raises the question of why it is sadly necessary for the police to have to protect anyone looking visibly Jewish or visibly any religion for that matter.

And yes I also sympathise with the police who were put in a difficult position and why I think the protests and marches from either side are causing more harm than good.