To think that the blame lies with Hamas and Israel deserves our support

[measuringmylifeincoffeespoons]

Of course, the deaths of the aid workers recently is a terrible tragedy and it is entirely right that Israel is investigating why it happened and holding members of the IDF responsible.

However, the criticism of Israel seems to miss a fundamentally important point which is that Israel is engaged in military operations in Gaza for one reason only: the barbaric terrorist attacks that were committed by Hamas on 7 October and their continued imprisonment of Israel citizens as hostages.

Of course, the deaths of the aid workers is a tragedy. Every civilian death that occurs in a war is a tragedy. But the reality is that that is what happens in a war, and Hamas is responsible for the fact that there is a war.

The war can be ended, and billions of dollars of aid can be released into Gaza, very simply. Hamas simply needs to lay down its arms and release the Israeli citizens that it has taken hostage and continues to keep imprisoned.

Unless and until Hamas do that, the state of Israel deserves our continuing support in its battle against a brutal terrorist organisation that has kidnapped the innocent civilians of a democratic state.

Yabu- the IRA committed a lot of terrorise acts on the UK (and the UK government were not innocent either)
Should the UK have gone a totally flatterned the ROI and everyone in it? Murdered their children? Starved them?
No.
Israel are a rogue state at the minute and the UK and US are still supporting them. Outrageous

Sorry you're saying that displacing the population, carpet bombing civilians, sniping children and deliberately targeting aid workers.so said agencies are too scared to enter and prevent the famine is Israel minimising their response out of fear of judgement? Could you tell me which countries you're referring to which would respond more aggressively than this?

What nonsense. Noone is supporting Hamas. And disagreeing with the Israeli government isn't anti semitism

There is an abundance of racism on this thread but it's not anti semitism

I remember watching a documentary about the Iraq war. In it they had an interview with a Recon Marine who talked about how he and others killed innocent civilians during the war.

I also remember fairly frequent reports the news of 'accidental' missile strikes on schools, hospitals and residential areas throughout the West's involvement in the Middle East.

What I don't remember is the same level of condemnation and outrage from the western public over their own actions (i know there was protest in the lead up to the war but it wasnt sustaine). Apparently it's just part of war when the Brits and Yanks do it but if Israel does its abhorrent genocide. You've got to wonder why Israel is held to much higher standards than any other country.

Sure. Just like the ICJ don't know what war is or the UN human rights Council who voted yesterday on an arms embargo.

You've got to wonder why Israel is held to much higher standards than any other country

Answers on a postcard please

I didn’t say disagreeing with the Israeli government is anti-Semitic. Try reading.

I haven’t read the replies, sorry.

The presence of Jewish people in today’s Israel dates back over 2000 years. No land has been stolen.

Judaism is the most ancient Abrahamic religion and even if you read the Tora purely as a history source, the presence of Jews in Judea is undisputed (hence the name). Their banishment from their land is also a historical event.

For centuries they had nowhere to go, went to many European countries, suffered persecutions. The largest minority was in pre-war Poland because when religious wars were ongoing in Europe, the Polish kings offered Jews to come and settle. They have contributed greatly throughout their centuries long presence in Poland.

Israel was formed in 1948 as a response to Holocaust. It was recognised that Jews had not had their own country for too long and that their claim to the land of Judea held enough water to warrant carving out a plot of land for them.

Not long after the neighbours attacked seeking to eradicate it. Israel managed to defend the attack and became a stronghold.

The war was ongoing. The USSR and its satellites supported Palestine. For example, Palestinian ‘fighters’ were trained in communist Poland…

Then the USSR collapsed.

Israel withdrew its troops from Gaza in 2006.

Since then it’s been supplying water and food to Gaza because the Gaza leaders were too busy spending foreign aid money on other things and have not managed to develop any infrastructure for its people. Israel is building a desalination plant for the Gaza people.

I cannot be 100% objective because my Nan grew up in nazi occupied Poland and saw the atrocities Jewish people were subjected to. Her best friend was mauled to death by two SS dogs in front of her. The friend was Jewish. They were both 6 at the time. My Nan’s mother’s best friend was also Jewish. The whole family perished.

I’ve been to Auschwitz twice and will never forget the experience.

My Grandma’s dad was in the Polish Resistance and luckily managed to save some lives. But it wasn’t enough. He was sentenced to die in Auschwitz too.

So, in my opinion, Jews have every right to their own land. They aren’t saying their neighbours shouldn’t exist. But their neighbours are saying Israel shouldn’t exist. And, according to some more outspoken apostates, this teaching is widespread.

To wish for the Israel and its people to perish is too close to the nazi ideology for me.

I also believe that if you poke a bear, you should be prepared for the consequences. Rape is not resistance. Hamas knew what they were doing when they went in and are now, as always, hoping that the international pressure will save them from the consequences. They should spend the money and the energy making Gaza a better place for the people who live there but that’s not their objective.

Yes people view Israel differently. Because Israel sets itself up as a ‘democracy’. An ‘ally’ of the west. It’s in bloody Eurovision. Israel wants to be seen as one of ‘us’.

So yes of course it is seen differently when a western ally murders thousands of innocent children. And the UK government stands by supporting it. I can’t see the UK vocally and proudly ‘standing by’ Iran if it bombed Gazan children, can you?

Because somehow they have the automatic final word on morality?

This is a completely false analogy. The IRA were never the government of Ireland nor were they sheltered by the Irish state. Nor did we ever see anything like the terrorism in the uk that Israel saw on 7 October.

Hamas are the elected government of Gaza. They spent some time, likely years, planning a vile,cruel, extensive terrorist attack on Israel which deliberately targeted civilians. They murdered at least 1400 people, raped women and kidnapped hundreds including babies. If that actual analogous situation had happened to any country, there would be war.

This is so tedious now. Show me somewhere where people have said what Hamas did on Oct 7th was ok?? Hamas are disgusting. Yet many support Israel’s massacre of Gazan kids. The hypocrisy since day one has been astonishing.

Brilliant comment.

Exactly.

Hamas are defined as terrorists by western governments. Western countries also refer to people as “intrepid explorers rather than land invading colonists. The label you use depends on which side you are on but it doesn’t mean the label is correct

Well it’s undeniably correct in this case as it’s applied to a group that launched a well planned attack on civilians, which involved torturing families in front of each other, murdering families in front of each other, murdering babies, gang rape on a systematic scale, and broadcasting their glorification in their own barbarity.

It’s utterly remarkable that anyone can still try to pretend that Hamas are not a terrorist group. It’s very clear that there is nothing they could do to earn that title, to those who still deny it. It shows a remarkable level of ideological capture.

Ah see this is the thing - nobody is saying it’s okay, but plenty of people are being very loud with their silence when it comes to condemnation. The ‘be kind’ crowd think that saying nothing somehow means they’re home dry. I’ve seen this repeatedly during the last few months.

No one supports children being killed....don't be so ridiculous.

Your post and reply comments show that you are very ignorant to what has actually happened and the history of Palestine.
I would highly encourage you to read independent sources to understand the history. You cannot see October 7th as the starting point.
Israel was created through force and murdering Palestinians, through stealing their land and forcing them to live in essentially open air prisons with no freedom to come and go as is the right of any citizen.
Colonising counties, particularly Britain used tactics learned through colonising Ireland and the US to take over Palestine and create Israel.
Hamas were funded by the Israeli government because they saw a movement towards peace through alternative political movements. They knew if they supported Hamas, funding them through secondary groups they were be seen as justified by the world to finally accomplish their goal to murder and misplaced Palestinians for good.
The acts were horrendous that happened on Oct 7 but what Israel is doing is absolutely genocide. It's using the idea of terrorism to go after all Palestinians, little babies are being targeted by snipers, people bringing aid, doctors, reporters are all being targeted because this is their push to end them for once and for all. They have committed war crimes and need to be stopped. The UK, Germany, the US are all complicit and in 20/30 years this will be taught in schools as a genocide.

I don't even know where to start on this post so I won't.

I have seen some pro-Israel supporters on other unrelated threads about other forms of racism, immigration etc. I note that for many, their accusations of prejudice only applies to one specific group. Racism and Islamophobia abound. As I said, utter hypocrisy. I see them.

The uk and usa themselves were part of a coalition which bombed civilians infrastructure as part of the war against ISIS. Including using JDAM missiles to destroy a hospital from which Isis operates. That was about 2 years ago. It was barely reported never mind did we see protests in the streets.

we do not only support bombing of civilians in war (which happens in every war - less so in Gaza due to Israeli tactics) we actually carry out such bombing ourselves.

so let’s be honest, what is the hate of Israel really about?

It is as ridiculous as this then:
They are, in essence, condemning the suffering of all life, but somehow failing to condemn the actions of Hamas. The underlying anti-semitism should be clear, but somehow it isn’t.

Completely agree especially your last sentence.
History Will not be kind to Israel, the US and the UK.

Are you trying to say Jews are racist?

people who are antisemitic in my experience tend to be racist against other groups too.

YABU. It's genocide, backed by the West. Utterly despicable.