To think that the blame lies with Hamas and Israel deserves our support

[measuringmylifeincoffeespoons]

Of course, the deaths of the aid workers recently is a terrible tragedy and it is entirely right that Israel is investigating why it happened and holding members of the IDF responsible.

However, the criticism of Israel seems to miss a fundamentally important point which is that Israel is engaged in military operations in Gaza for one reason only: the barbaric terrorist attacks that were committed by Hamas on 7 October and their continued imprisonment of Israel citizens as hostages.

Of course, the deaths of the aid workers is a tragedy. Every civilian death that occurs in a war is a tragedy. But the reality is that that is what happens in a war, and Hamas is responsible for the fact that there is a war.

The war can be ended, and billions of dollars of aid can be released into Gaza, very simply. Hamas simply needs to lay down its arms and release the Israeli citizens that it has taken hostage and continues to keep imprisoned.

Unless and until Hamas do that, the state of Israel deserves our continuing support in its battle against a brutal terrorist organisation that has kidnapped the innocent civilians of a democratic state.

I lived in Australia 25 years ago and worked in the tourist industry. None of the Israelis I hung out with ever spoke about Palestinians in this way, although they did have a tendency towards extreme brusqueness and playing backgammon with them was a daunting experience.
Of all the nationalities I encountered in both my personal and professional life, the English, Irish and Scottish people were the most shockingly racist about and towards the First Nations Australians, but I don’t present this anecdotal experience as a way of suggesting all English, Irish and Scottish people are irredeemably racist.

Yes - it’s not a good idea to think one group are representative of the whole. There are racists everywhere sadly.

In any event, for once in my life I agree with Jay Rayner on something, who recently said;

“When Hamas mounted their 7 October attack on Israel, they committed both an atrocity and a provocation. With so many hostages taken, there were no good options for the Israeli government. Nevertheless, they managed to choose the very worst one.”

In theory it would be great if Hamas surrendered, but at the moment is there any plan as to how that could lead to peace? Netanyahu has said after the war Israel will control Gaza at least in the shorter term. Several of Netanyahu’s coalition overtly state they want Gaza cleared and resettled. Israel’s view of the international community is that they should be restricted to just funding Gaza’s reconstruction- no role has been suggested in developing appropriate governance and moving towards an equitable long term solution. There needs to be much more discussion involving a wider range of players as to what “after Hamas” will look like for Palestinians. A suitable plan would help reduce civilian support.
Also what has happened in Al Shifa it is difficult to think suspected combatants will get a fair trial and civilians will be protected?

The Israeli President Isaac Herzog claimed in a press conference in October that there are no innocent civilians in Gaza. “It is an entire nation out there that is responsible,” Herzog said at a press conference on Friday, October 13. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/israel-gaza-isaac-herzog_n_65295ee8e4b03ea0c004e2a8

@Parkingt111, that’s encouraging.

Dear God that is just sickening and completely unacceptable! 😡

Yes, and yet people defend Israel. Because hey, toddlers are responsible for the actions of grown up terrorists.

"actually agree that Israel has every right to retaliate and that they have to address the awful atrocities of 7th October, but how they're doing that is unforgivable."

How do you think they should address the awful atrocities so that they can be forgiven?

Preferably without killing over 30k civilians, most of whom are women and children. Oh and also preferably without causing a famine.

My point. Very few acknowledge that fact that Hamas are happy to sacrifice their children and condemn them for that. They appear to get a free pass fir their cowardly actions. I condemn them for the cowardly scum they are.

I also have said several times for the hard of hearing at the back soldiers that purposely target children when they know they are children need bringing to justice. I also condemn that, it's disgusting.

All this talk about Hamas being to blame for the IDF actions in Gaza. How does that explain the IDF crimes being committed in the West Bank or in Jerusalem?

@AliceA2021 given that targeting children is an established strategy of the IDF and has been for many years, does that mean you would condemn that organisation?

@AliceA2021 trollhunting isn't in the spirit of MN.

Herzog isn't just anyone, he's a senior politician with decades of experience, and it wasn't immediately after the event, it was almost a week. I could forgive a normal Israeli citizen for saying this kind of thing, but not a man of such power, experience and influence. He has responsibilities. Has he even apologised for saying it?

I know that Hamas have previously acknowledged that they use children to transport weapons because they know that the idf are less likely to target them. I don't know what age children Hamas use to transport weapons for them. I am aware of Gamas commanders stating that they indoctrinated children very youngcand then use them as they wish. Bloody sad.

This thread was started in AIBU and moved then to this board. That's why there are more varied posters than normal. It isn't a conspiracy theory.

I'm not. I'm just surprised at all the new names given that most threads on the Middle East have gone very quiet recently. Driven away by the inability to see the nuances maybe. Many people stopped engaging.

This shiny new thread this week has attracted lots of new people to the threads, surely that is great.

I'm sure I'll be reported for daring to mention this , such is life, report away 😂🙄

I’ve seen plenty of videos of the IDF employing the same tactics. The IDF are no better than Hamas - I don’t know why people defend them.

I condemn both soldiers who target innocent children and Hamas who use innocent children and cowardly and cynically pretend they care. I call out both.

It's strange so many won't condemn Hamas for using children for weapon distribution though and not condem Hamas for not giving a flying fuck for the children of Gaza themselves. That appears to be OK or a given. No accountability at all it seems.

Who won’t condemn Hamas? Isn’t that the starting point of every conversation over the last 6 months?

I really wouldn’t bother. The truth of all this is that in the eyes of some Israel will always be in the wrong. Just for existing. People can make their own minds up about why that should be.

But two things can be true. Israel are wrong. Hamas are wrong. Israel spent the last six months purposefully starving people. That's always wrong, I'm sure you agree.

Oh here we go - If you dont wholeheartedly support Israels actions you must have Jewish people.
Utter bullshit.
I have never had any strong feelings about Israel and while I have been shocked by the attitudes of some Israelis I have met over the years towards Palestine I figured that it wasnt my place to judge as its a complicated issue and it must be difficult living right next to a country that basically wants to annhilate you. I have no skin in the game and certainly have no reason to hate Jewish people at all.
BUT I utterly condemn their actions since they were attacked in October - they have gone far beyond retribution and revenge into attempted genocide as far as I am concerned.

The poster you are responding to said the IDF are no better than Hamas and she doesn't know why people defend them. I'd call that equal condemnation.

If the poster doesn't think the IDF can be defended because they are no better than Hamas then clearly she doesn't think Hamas can be defended either. I agree with her.

Are you really asking for people to continue condemning Hamas whilst staying silent about the atrocities the IDF are committing?