To think that the blame lies with Hamas and Israel deserves our support

[measuringmylifeincoffeespoons]

Of course, the deaths of the aid workers recently is a terrible tragedy and it is entirely right that Israel is investigating why it happened and holding members of the IDF responsible.

However, the criticism of Israel seems to miss a fundamentally important point which is that Israel is engaged in military operations in Gaza for one reason only: the barbaric terrorist attacks that were committed by Hamas on 7 October and their continued imprisonment of Israel citizens as hostages.

Of course, the deaths of the aid workers is a tragedy. Every civilian death that occurs in a war is a tragedy. But the reality is that that is what happens in a war, and Hamas is responsible for the fact that there is a war.

The war can be ended, and billions of dollars of aid can be released into Gaza, very simply. Hamas simply needs to lay down its arms and release the Israeli citizens that it has taken hostage and continues to keep imprisoned.

Unless and until Hamas do that, the state of Israel deserves our continuing support in its battle against a brutal terrorist organisation that has kidnapped the innocent civilians of a democratic state.

And, I do not really believe that if Hamas just handed over the hostages and surrendered the war would stop. It seems likely this present Israeli government and the IDF and settlers would carry on bulldozing, bombing, shooting, arresting, stealing land, harassing, blockading and surveilling the Palestinians, and try to block a two state solution.

I agree with this assessment. With the current Israeli government even when the bombing stops in Gaza all that you listed above will continue. Israel as it is now will not leave Gaza and they will treat the Palestinian population as they do in the West Bank. Both Hamas and Netanyahu’s government are terrible for their people and for the overall conflict.

The aims of the Jewish Israeli and Arab organisation Standing Together are commendable. If such people were in power there would be genuine hope for the region for both Israelis and Palestinians.

https://x.com/omdimbeyachad/status/1775581110941958332?s=61&t=JdkndO417wUfB5xJiVIJww

@silverneedle I follow standing together on their socials. They are an amazing organisation doing amazing work

I forgot to add an image to my comment above.

@Parkingt111 , glad you follow them too, they are great, aren’t they.

And one more screenshot from the Standing Together Twitter thread.

@silverneedle i saw snippets of the latest protests in Tel Aviv on their page. This protest seems to be quite large in number

This is brilliant. And I love that there are so many women in the pictures. It reminds me of the inter denominational women’s peace movement in Northern Ireland. ( not that men don’t also want peace but it strikes me that women, and the children they care for, often suffer the most)
I hope they get the support and media coverage they need .

You are right OP

Hamas lay down their arms and the war stops. Israel lay down their arms and reinvested to exist.

Incorrect. If Hamas lay down their arms and release all hostages without it being in the framework of a ceasefire agreement, the IDF continues to attack. The stated position of the Israeli government is that they would not stop.

Yes but I don't think that matters to Netanyahu and his followers, well it doesn't matter to them. I would hope they would have some sympathy for their own but they don't seem to have that either. My point, which goes back to another post, is that Israel should be focusing on getting the hostages back by sitting down and talking, not by bombing and killing. Killing their own sometimes and leaving them in a country that they are deliberately starving. They are deliberately killing and starving Gazans so I have no hope they will stop that for the sake of Gazans, I still have some small hope they might have a ceasefire, let enough aid in and rescuing the hostages and stop killing innocents in Gaza.

Well they're not going to do that whilst Israel is calling the Palestinians human animals. As far as Netanyahu is concerned, every Palestinian in guilty of 7th October.(BBC this morning).

Every Palestinian in guilty of 7th October.(BBC this morning).

That's shocking where did you see it on the BBC?

And in their actions they're shooting and bombing a population of which over half are children who cannot defend themselves..how do you justify that to yourself as reasonable and proportionate? Why do you think they aren't using special operations to target Hamas? Why do you think they're continuing with their tactics knowing the majority of the casualties will be civilians and largely children? Because they do know that.

Unfortunately the utter twat that is Sinwar is still alive although like most of the leadership of Hamas keep themselves and family safe in other countries. They don't give a shit for Palestinian people their aim is all they care for. Vile cowardly scum. The people are mere pawns.

I think they try but fail whereas Hamas don't even try to mitigate Palestinian children's lives. Part of the cause, martyrdom and all that.

I haven't seen it this morning but it's been the clearly stated position of the Israeli government for six months now.

This is trying? Do you think the trained snipers are hitting these children accidentally?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-war

@AliceA2021 have you read about Lavender and 'Where's Daddy?'

A force or organisation that was interested in mitigating risks to children's lives in a war zone, probably wouldn't a) develop and use that, or b) call it that.

@Lampy123678 and that isn't even a new practice. I know of orders coming through for snipers to kill Palestinian children dating back 2 decades now.

I know, it's so awful. Same with the aid workers. The soldiers on the ground are doing what they've been told to do for ages i.e. see and shoot anyone, but now it's getting some attention the IDF are trying to say it's a mistake or that those soldiers didn't follow orders 🥴

Childhood friend’s mum is Israeli, and while I love the family in many, many ways I have always found the way the mother ( and aunts) talk about Palestinians to be abhorrent. They consider them ‘dirty’,
less than human, and think that they need to ‘go’.

@Lampy123678

I've read that story you shared and it's appalling and sad. The troops that targeted children need investigating and charging. I'm appalled by that.

You didn't go on to answer the rest of my comment. You commented on the Israeli part where I suggested they try to reduce numbers of deaths of children.

My other claim was that hamas doesn't even bother to try to reduce the deaths of Palestinian children, they really don't see Palestinian children as worthy of saving. They don't even try. Do you agree with that then since you didn't address that at all. It is a given then that hamas don't care how many children die.

Yes similar to the views a group of young Israelis had when I hung out with them in Australia 25 years ago. Their views really shocked me I was a young naive 20 year old and their words have stuck with me

Did they tried and failed when they shot at people waving white flags ?
and when they shot at people they had blindfolded and hand-leg cuffed ?
And when they bury alive in the sand with their tanks?

I think what @Lampy123678 (and myself) are implying is that Hamas and Israel aren’t trying to mitigate the deaths. They’re both killing indiscriminately

Investigated for what? Following the orders and military tactics of their army?

I didn't address you other comment because I don't even understand what you mean by it except for repeating IDF rhetoric. Could you expand and explain how Hamas are able to stop the deaths caused by the IDF? Can you explain to me how they prevent and IDF sniper from shooting a child in the head for example?

And don't give me the lazy human shield argument because
A,these children referenced in that article were not being used as human shields
B, IDF soldiers also regularly use Palestinians as human shields on the ground
C, children are being targeted in this way by the IDF in the West Bank where there is no Hamas.
D, if a Hamas militant was using an Israeli childre as human shields, do you think the IDF would kill that children? If not, why?