To think that the blame lies with Hamas and Israel deserves our support

[measuringmylifeincoffeespoons]

Of course, the deaths of the aid workers recently is a terrible tragedy and it is entirely right that Israel is investigating why it happened and holding members of the IDF responsible.

However, the criticism of Israel seems to miss a fundamentally important point which is that Israel is engaged in military operations in Gaza for one reason only: the barbaric terrorist attacks that were committed by Hamas on 7 October and their continued imprisonment of Israel citizens as hostages.

Of course, the deaths of the aid workers is a tragedy. Every civilian death that occurs in a war is a tragedy. But the reality is that that is what happens in a war, and Hamas is responsible for the fact that there is a war.

The war can be ended, and billions of dollars of aid can be released into Gaza, very simply. Hamas simply needs to lay down its arms and release the Israeli citizens that it has taken hostage and continues to keep imprisoned.

Unless and until Hamas do that, the state of Israel deserves our continuing support in its battle against a brutal terrorist organisation that has kidnapped the innocent civilians of a democratic state.

The best way I can sum up my feelings is like this:

-Acts of terrorism are revolting. Israel had thr duty and right to respond to the murders, kidnapping and rapes that happened on Oct 7th. I support them in this.

• I do not support them in the wholesale starvation of Gaza or the illegal harassment and land clearance happening on the West Bank to Palestinians by settlers.

It would be the equivalent of Britain starving Belfast after an IRA bombing during the Troubles. God knows, we got a lot wrong in Northern Ireland but I can't ever recall this level of misery and death.

Except for the Israeli hostages they're pretending to be trying to save? Do you think bombing campaigns reduce the chance of them being killed?
A ground offensive is also not a targeted operation.

This isn't a war it's collective punishment by an occupying state on a population of which half are children which people seem hell bent on normalising with "whataboutery". The same human rights agencies criticizing Israel are the same ones that criticised the events you mentioned so where is this narrative they're being treated differently coming from?

Er.. no!

Not at all, I think it's more anti-Semitic to collate being Jewish and the Israeli government. The actions they take are not because they are Jewish but because they are Zionists. There are Christian Zionists, it is not a religion in itself. The Israeli government are hiding behind claims of antisemitism and using it as a weapon to meet their own needs and Jewish people should be angry about that.
It's documented that there are at least 160,000 holocaust survivors living in poverty, relying on support from charities and strangers in Israel because the government doesn't support them.
Jewish people around the world and in Israel are protesting the government because they are realising they have weaponised their faith. I have spent many years studying WW2 and the atrocious, heinous acts that were commited but to say that Israel was created as a result is a lie. It began before that, and there are even those who say it was Britain's anti sematisim and those of other countries that made them decide to get on board with Zionism because they wanted a place to put Jewish people that wasn't their own country and that they could use to their own favour.

I haven't read the full thread but i see a few people are still insisting on the issue that sufficient aid was allowed in by Israel

This is a good article posted in the times of Israel today, Netanyahu is busy playing politics as usual even when it has come to aid and his policies and actions has slowly hardened even the allies as they can no longer defend the blocking of aid.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-begrudging-approach-to-humanitarian-aid-could-cost-it-the-war-in-gaza/

You do realise OP that you aren't allowed to support Israel in any way at all. Suggesting they have a right to defend themselves, mentioning Hamas and 7th October are totally irrelevant. Even if you say you don't support Netanyahu and believe that errors need investigation, rogue soldiers investigated and that this situation in more complex you will be assumed to be a 'genocide supporter ' if you don't condemn them for everything they do.

Hamas could stop this tomorrow but saying that doesn't wash and of course its only Israel to blame. Surprised you're still alive

Oh and by the way, please do share those blueprints and plans. I would be very interested to see them.

Or do they only exist on the fantastical planet that you seem to inhabit?

Don't you think the main thing now is to get the hostages back? I mean we all know the IDF have been shooting some of them, some might have died in the bombing and they all might be starving so surely it is time to end this. Ceasefire and negotiations now.

About 40% of Gaza's population is 14 years old or younger and the territory's median age was just 18 in 2020, making Gaza home to one of the world's 20 youngest populations, based on figures from the CIA's World Factbook.14 Nov 2023.

Very few of the population were alive when Israel was created.

Iwasafool I totally agree that the priority is to get the hostages back. That wasn't the point I was responding to in my comments.

Here you go -

"The British government hoped that the declaration would rally Jewish opinion, especially in the United States, to the side of the Allied powers against the Central Powers during World War I (1914–18). They hoped also that the settlement in Palestine of a pro-British Jewish population might help to protect the approaches to the Suez Canal in neighbouring Egypt and thus ensure a vital communication route to British colonial possessions in India."

www.britannica.com/event/Balfour-Declaration

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/martinkramer/files/forgotten_truth_balfour_declaration.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi9uNyu_a2FAxUNQkEAHeYwBCEQFnoECBYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3Zjb9JFU6SoLcr3yHMTVtr

https://foreignpolicy.com/2010/09/08/how-anti-semitism-helped-create-israel-2/

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2017-10-26/ty-article/the-balfour-declarations-racism-and-why-it-still-matters/0000017f-dba4-db22-a17f-ffb5fdd10000

"The British Empire, in turn, seeing the Ottoman Empire’s demise and plotting its own plan to control parts of the Middle East, began making deals with several interested parties. In addition to promising Sharif Husayn of Mecca an Arab state in exchange for help in the Arab revolt against the Ottomans, and making tentative land arrangements with France, they issued the famous (and for some, infamous) Balfour Declaration, which expressed support for the establishment of a “Jewish national home” in Palestine."

www.fpri.org/article/2015/01/origins-and-evolution-of-zionism/

vile person

But it surely is the only point worth talking about now. Pressure on Netanyahu to get that done.

It's crazy to think that about half of their population have known nothing other than life under devastating blockade. May the future bring them the freedom military occupation that they deserve 🙏

I'm sorry Nn9011. I don't understand what you have just posted?

Superfoodie said that there are blueprints showing what the Israeli government want to do with this land when they kill the Palestinians and get the land back.

How does the material you have posted demonstrate that?

Iwasafool. I'm afraid i disagree that it is "the only point worth talking about". This is a complex multifactorial issue with a huge range of perspectives on many sides. There are many points and issues that need talking about.

I'm very neutral in this, but supporting everything israel is doing isn't logical.
As a similar situation, Germany was oppressed and pushed to many following extremism through that oppression after ww1. The same has happened in palestine.
I doubt many would've agreed with thousands of German children starving just because of a large % of German adults supporting extremism, there should be the same view with Palestinian children.

No one is denying that there are complex, multifactorial, deep rooted issues and legitimate points of view on both sides. If that is what you mean by the conflict not starting on 7 October.

At the same time, Israel is presently engaged in military operations in Gaza for one reason and one reasons only: the barbaric terrorist attacks that were committed by Hamas on 7 October.

I'm afraid I don't see the parallels with the Holocaust at all. There the Nazis set out with the deliberate intention of destroying the Jewish people ie wiping them off the face of the earth.

I have not seen any evidence that the Israelis intend to destroy the Palestinian people. They want to destroy Hamas, the terrorist organisation but that is a completely different thing.

At what cost?

What could Hamas stop tomorrow and how?
Israel have already said the release of hostages won't stop their assault on Gaza so what are you suggesting? And why, if apparently all it takes is for Hamas to be not be present, are Israeli soldiers and the government killing Palestinians in the territories that there is no Hamas?

Well I put myself in the place of a mother with one of my children a hostage. Apart from the fact I'd have probably gone insane with worry by now I would want my child back. For that other mother who I will never know I think getting the hostages back is the only point worth talking about. So we will have to disagree.

They can talk about the other points when the hostages are home and the bombing and shooting stops.

Sorry I got a notification that it was a reply to me, I thought you meant it as a response to my last post. I think we both got confused!

What is the cost of not getting them back. There is a saying that is supposed to be a translation from a passage in The Talmud “Whoever saves a single life is considered by scripture to have saved the world.”

Let's save the world.