To think that the blame lies with Hamas and Israel deserves our support

[measuringmylifeincoffeespoons]

Of course, the deaths of the aid workers recently is a terrible tragedy and it is entirely right that Israel is investigating why it happened and holding members of the IDF responsible.

However, the criticism of Israel seems to miss a fundamentally important point which is that Israel is engaged in military operations in Gaza for one reason only: the barbaric terrorist attacks that were committed by Hamas on 7 October and their continued imprisonment of Israel citizens as hostages.

Of course, the deaths of the aid workers is a tragedy. Every civilian death that occurs in a war is a tragedy. But the reality is that that is what happens in a war, and Hamas is responsible for the fact that there is a war.

The war can be ended, and billions of dollars of aid can be released into Gaza, very simply. Hamas simply needs to lay down its arms and release the Israeli citizens that it has taken hostage and continues to keep imprisoned.

Unless and until Hamas do that, the state of Israel deserves our continuing support in its battle against a brutal terrorist organisation that has kidnapped the innocent civilians of a democratic state.

It’s sad that you’re so convinced by (fairly poor) propaganda that you think my comment is somehow inaccurate.

And Nelson Mandela never campaigned for all white people in South Africa to be obliterated

But the Palestinians are an oppressed people @Comedycook. Of course it’s not working out well for them. It hasn’t been for approximately 75 years. I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make? I don’t think you really understand the history - or perhaps you don’t want to acknowledge the facts because you have a closed mind. I don’t know

Trendy - to oppose genocide? Are you serious?

It's actually so sad that people think like this. That people see dead children and feel nothing. On mumsnet of all places. Any person who can see the suffering and deaths and trauma those Palestinian babies and kids are going through and claim it's fake has not got a maternal bone in their body.

Since 2015 an average of 4 a day.
100 a day on average dying in Gaza.

Children being murdered and maimed by drones that directly blast off their face is not really the time and place for whataboutery.

If someone steals YOUR land and supresses YOUR people over a long period of time you are supposed to bend over and take it up the arse are you?

This!

I am Irish I don’t need to go learn about the situation in Ireland I’ve lived here my entire life. I have studied Irish history including the troubles extensively.
it’s exactly because of the demographics and the fact that the North was part of the UK that IRA representatives didn’t form a government or even take up their seats in the UK one.
maybe I’ve offended you but I haven’t offended any other Irish person I’ve shared my views on this with. In fact they are very much of the same mind. Due to our history Irish people have historically been very sympathetic to the Palestinian people’s situation.
and there very much is indiscriminate killing in Gaza and deliberate starvation.

My point was the world is full of people who have been displaced. Borders are rewritten all the time and people are able to live in peace. Greek Cypriots were forced out of Northern Cyprus and their homes taken over. They haven't formed a terrorist group and bombed them.

This is so deeply disingenuous.

@Annettekurtin

It’s sad that you’re so convinced by (fairly poor) propaganda that you think my comment is somehow inaccurate.

Approximately 13,500 Palestinian children have been killed by Israel since the war started last year. But according to you there is no massacre of Gaza’s civilians. What do you think these murdered children were? Terrorists? Get a grip!

No it’s been like this from the start. All those comments, from the start. The celebration of Hamas, from the start. Denying the atrocities, from the start, turning faces away from Israeli victims, from the start.

I think you need to question what your motivation is for not wanting face up to this, or to justify it, as you are in this post.

The only honest explanation is that people had so dehumanised Israeli citizens that nothing that could be done to them, no matter how barbaric, or deliberate or cruel, could ever induce normal human compassion or sympathy. Instead faces would instantly be turned away from them. And they were.

You are basically in your post desperately trying to find a justification for people not having normal human sympathy for an atrocity against a group of people. Doesn’t that tell you something? Is that not a massive red flag?

No one is denying that children in Gaza have died or that it is tragic. The dispute is whether you believe Israel is directly targeting them or if they are collateral damage.... horrible term but I don't know how else to phrase it.

Why don’t you answer my point? Why were there no protests about the uk itself bombing a hospital (deliberately) in the war against Isis? Why no condemnation? Same question re. Syrian aggression, Houthis, etc.

you say you’re traumatized by Gaza images but why were you not traumatized by those other wars? What about the (very many) civilian harmed by the war against Isis?

‘I am Irish I don’t need to go learn about the situation in Ireland I’ve lived here my entire life.’

Same. In my experience the mainland British would be do themselves a favour to actually bother to learn a fact or two when it comes to N.I. And their government’s history with it.

You can’t bomb people into submission anymore, that goes for governments too. You start murdering people’s children, and they will fight you to the ends of time.

Do you believe there is no such thing as an innocent Palestinian? That all killings of Palestinians are justified? Because that’s really the only way anyone could actually believe there is no massacre going on. Because all the killings are justified.

Yes, I agree. Straight away we saw pro Palestinian rallies and comments online. Even before the terrorist attack was finished. We would never see that in any other terrorist attack - even against Russia(for example).

You’re moving the goalposts in your attempt to demonize Jews. Of course innocent people die in war. But there have been no “massacres” of Palestinians as you claimed.

I'm not sure he killed anyone, but he was in jail while a lot of the violence took place. The ANC certainly killed quite a few. His wife was known to have been involved in some of the deaths.

What you’re actually saying here is you don’t agree with war, period. Which is a fine position to take, but you may as well state it.

So, are you saying that Hamas were justified in their actions on 7 October?

I don't condone anything that Hamas has done. However, Hamas didn't force Israel to bomb three aid vehicles on a known aid route in succession. Nor did it force Israel to kill thousands of Palestinian children. No-one really believes that that sort of action is going to recover hostages or defeat Hamas. If anything, Israel is busy putting in place a whole new generation of Palestinians who have good reason to hate it and become terrorists against Israel in the future.

‘so let’s be honest, what is the hate of Israel really about?’

I don’t ‘hate’ Israel, but I abhor the Israeli’s governments treatment of the Palestinian people, and their current attempted genocide. As should anyone with an ounce of humanity in them.
Seems I’m not alone as half the world is calling on them to stop murdering civilians
Did one of the most sophisticated military powers accidentally bomb aid workers trying to deliver food to starving people? Or did they, with their incredibly precise rockets, bomb aid workers BECAUSE they were trying to deliver aid to starving people?
I know which version I believe. The more Israel behaves like this, the more the world will turn on them. For the sake of their own people, Israel should stop this genocide.

I am not demonizing Jews. I absolutely believe in Israel’s right to exist. But I also believe in Palestine’s right to exist. That doesn’t make me anti semitic.