Christians in Jerusalem

[EasterIssland]

found this in Twitter today about the current situation of Christians in Jerusalem (West bank and East Jerusalem) and the struggles they’re going through

https://premierchristian.news/en/news/article/christians-in-holy-land-desperate-over-lack-of-work-and-upsurge-in-religious-hatred

The situation for Christians is especially desperate as most of them work in the tourism sector, which has been at a standstill since the conflict began.

The source told ACN that for Christians “wearing a cross can get you into trouble.
“Sometimes you have to hide your identity in your own homeland to avoid problems.
“The presence in the area of groups with increasingly radical elements makes our situation even more difficult.”

Exactly, it appears not.

Exactly we all agree that settlers removal of Christians from land is wrong. Do people just arrive at the thread, not read the discussion and then make a random comment that isn't based on fact.

Did you happen to notice any posters criticising the extremist Israeli settlers and agreeing that the Palestinian Christian Kisiya family have been terribly mistreated? Just above your post, can't miss it.

It is not that persecutions everywhere don’t matter, but as another poster pointed out they are not the centre of the Holy Land, the city where Jesus died and the birthplace of Christianity.

It is true that other countries in the Middle East in general are far worse for Christians than Israel is, to the extent that Christians from those regions may be asylum seekers, but now there seems to be a turn for the worse in Israel.

What is happening in Jerusalem now is also linked to the climate of impunity for the more right wing extreme nationalist Jewish Israelis which has been created by certain members of the present government. This faction is causing so many problems generally, not just for Christians.

@ScrollingLeaves Agreed, the longer those factions hold any power in government, the worse it gets. Here's hoping they'll be reduced to irrelevance in the next election. They're destroyers not builders, which goes against everything Jerusalem should stand for in my view.

I think the thing is that there are many places which have ancient Christian roots, Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey etc. These are truly old communities. I’m not sure that being on holy land make it any better or worse tbh. I’m from a minority and my people have been persecuted (killed) both where our roots are and elsewhere. It wasn’t any worse or any better because it was here or there. The destruction of religiously significant sites is definitely painful for believers because they can’t be replaced.

But intolerance vs murder? When you are already a very small community loss of life will always be more important than anything else. It is sad when your community is driven from it’s “home” for want of a better word, but when the congregation are murdered or “disappeared” that’s infinitely worse. People, humans matter.

That doesn’t mean that I think persecution of Christians in Jerusalem should be ignored, I’m specifically referring to the bit about it being holy land.

I’m glad it’s been raised though, I hope action is taken to protect those groups and it does sound like some people are paying attention at the very least.

It is not that persecutions everywhere don’t matter, but as another poster pointed out they are not the centre of the Holy Land, the city where Jesus died and the birthplace of Christianity.

I’ve seen this said earlier, but I just don’t see the relevance.

Is persecution for Christians in the Holy Land worse than persecution for Christians anywhere else, especially where they face death as opposed to what is described in the article the OP posted?

The OP has, quite rightly, been challenged - this seems like a poor attempt at justification.

I agree.

Jerusalem is the most holy city for Christians. Their persecution there has a global impact. It is terrifying Israeli Christians, detrimental to Israelis in general and has increased under Netanyahu's government. This is not an anti-jewish thread. It's not an anti-Israel thread. Israelis are suffering under Netanyahu, all of them apart from the far right.

Anyone who wants to post a thread about the persecution of Christians worldwide is welcome to start one. The whataboutery on this thread is derailing.

This is why all areas in the middle east where persecution of Christians are matter.

😥 this is the point why not just talking about in Israel matters

Indeed, I agree hence why quite a few of us have challenged the need to shut down the conversation around persecution of Christians in the middle east in general. The agenda to shut down is bizarre.

As a general point it's worth noting that most Israeli Christians don't live in Jerusalem (though East Jerusalemites without citizenship would be counted separately). Most of them live in the North. Nazareth (the Hebrew word for Christians, Notzrim, comes from Nazareth), Haifa, Acco, Nov HaGalil.

Non-Arab christians (who comprise various groups) are more likely to live in the centre of the country, and also includes guest workers (especially Filipinos) and people from the FSU who immigrated through family ties.

Are you Christian? I’m only asking because as I said being from a minority group myself we’ve always focused on the violence and murder bit. We don’t even have access to some of our most holy sites. We can’t even visit. This is not as important as men women and children being murdered to us. We don’t even really talk about those sites generally. Not because they aren’t important but because it is what it is.

If as a Christian you are saying that the persecution is having a global impact on Christians I won’t argue with you. I just feel it doesn’t reflect how my minority group measures things. I don’t know, I mean Jewish people were definitely persecuted in Jerusalem, I’m not sure they would say it’s worse experiencing harassment than say pograms against them in other countries. I don’t know I’m not Jewish or Christian. I can only talk about how we see it.

I don’t think it’s whataboutery as such, If someone said to me “oh it’s terrible that your group are experiencing persecution in this X” and I said “yeah but they are killing us in y” and then they proceeded to tell me it’s worse in X because of the religious significance of X I wouldn’t agree really. Again I can’t speak for Christians. I can only talk about how my people would feel about it.

Im not a christian either but I imagine it varies for different denominations - partly why I was trying to unpick the wider context & who we mean by Christian in Israel. I imagine some of the more ancient christians would have a different relationship with the holy sites to some strands of Protestant who might have a different history of persecution & exile, quite apart from different approaches to physical things & ideas of idolatry etc.

The whataboutery, 'picking apart' and and blatant 'I wouldn't call it danger' is absolutely shocking and only serves to minimize the christian struggle in Jerusalem, the most holy site. We all know there is no need at all to 'widen the context', the point is that christians are being driven out, spat on, having their land confiscated, being murdered in their own churches, and yet posters feel the need to ascertain what denomination they are or what country they really are from? And at the same time saying that mentioning this struggle is just another jew bashing thread. Utter abhorrent.

Nobody said their was no danger for Christians. Not one person even implied that. Many posters have commented on the fact that its wrong that Christians have seen an increase in persecution & posted other links. I don't think there is anything wrong in trying to establish facts is there? Christians in Israel is quite complicated - there is such diversity & some of the posts have been really helpful in explaining that.

Can you point us to where Christians have been murdered in their churches in Jerusalem? The Rossing report had 2 attacks on property and 7 physical attacks (hitting/spitting) in 2023.

Im a person with an enquiring mind trying to understand something?! Why are you 'delegitimising' Filipinos by calling them 'mere'? This is quite weird.

This is my last contribution to this thread. I will not take part anymore for the same reason as the OP. It is a sad state of affairs when freedom of speech is curtailed this way.
I will leave you with this report.
Israel: Freedom in the World 2024 Country Report | Freedom House

Absolutely

Freedom of speech isn't being curtailed. People are merely pointing out the persecution of Christians throughout the middle east.

Freedom of speech is curtailed when OP and @Auvergne63 say we cannot talk about that!

People have condemned settler violence towards Christians on this thread and elsewhere as is right to do so. Strange that others would not have us discuss and condemned that throughout the Middle East as well 🤔

It's all wrong, it's all awful.

I feel strongly about persecution of Christians across the globe. I don’t think it’s right to focus specifically on the poor treatment of Christians in one place while ignoring the far more shocking and brutal wider picture.
There are places where the treatment of Christians is truly horrific. If you’re truly concerned about the brutal persecution of Christians your first reference certainly wouldn’t be Jerusalem ( although I’m certainly not condoning the behaviour of extremists who spit at Christians)

I think there are many valid criticisms that can be made about Israel . I think the spitting of Christians by extremists in Jerusalem is abhorrent but pales into insignificance in the context of what is going on in Israel and Gaza - and the much much more brutal treatment of Christians elsewhere
The title of this thread suggests a concern about the mistreatment of Christians but the insistence that we can only explore Jewish mistreatment of Christians suggests the motivation is to “bash Jews” rather than show concern for Christians .

Your freedom of speech isn't being curtailed by people disagreeing with you. 😂