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Conflict in the Middle East

Christians in Jerusalem

290 replies

EasterIssland · 19/03/2024 16:59

found this in Twitter today about the current situation of Christians in Jerusalem (West bank and East Jerusalem) and the struggles they’re going through

https://premierchristian.news/en/news/article/christians-in-holy-land-desperate-over-lack-of-work-and-upsurge-in-religious-hatred

The situation for Christians is especially desperate as most of them work in the tourism sector, which has been at a standstill since the conflict began.

The source told ACN that for Christians “wearing a cross can get you into trouble.
“Sometimes you have to hide your identity in your own homeland to avoid problems.
“The presence in the area of groups with increasingly radical elements makes our situation even more difficult.”

Christians in Holy Land 'desperate' over lack of work and upsurge in religious hatred - Premier Christian News | Headlines, Breaking News, Comment & Analysis

Christians in the Holy Land are struggling to put food on the table and pay their household bills as increasing conflict and tension plunge the region into unprecedented crisis. That’s according to th

https://premierchristian.news/en/news/article/christians-in-holy-land-desperate-over-lack-of-work-and-upsurge-in-religious-hatred

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
EmoteOrNot · 22/09/2024 22:28

TooBigForMyBoots · 22/09/2024 22:24

This thread isn't throwing Christian persecution in the mix Christian persecution in Israel is happening. The OP isnt doing it I hope. She's just talking about it.🤷‍♀️

Yes, whilst vehemently shutting down any discussion of Christian persecution outside of Israel. If you're genuine in your intent, why do that? Christians are being persecuted across the world, it's not limited to one country.

Limesodaagain · 22/09/2024 22:28

TooBigForMyBoots · 22/09/2024 22:24

This thread isn't throwing Christian persecution in the mix Christian persecution in Israel is happening. The OP isnt doing it I hope. She's just talking about it.🤷‍♀️

Yes. - but was she talking about it when it was Hamas led violence against Christians in Gaza ?

EmoteOrNot · 22/09/2024 22:30

Limesodaagain · 22/09/2024 22:28

Yes. - but was she talking about it when it was Hamas led violence against Christians in Gaza ?

Exactly. Thank you.

YoYoYoYo12345 · 22/09/2024 22:37

EmoteOrNot · 22/09/2024 21:17

After reading this thread, I too agree with @Limesodaagain that this thread has an underlying motive. If posters are truly concerned about the persecution of Christians, there would be no issue in extending the discussion to include other countries where they face persecution and victimisation on a daily basis. In fact, as the most persecuted religion in the world, it's a hugely important topic and one that worryingly gets the least amount of attention. As such, and If you genuinely care about their plight, why would anyone then try and shut it down when posters discuss countries other than Israel. Seems rather disingenuous.

Exactly, my point from the start.

Silence1 · 22/09/2024 22:39

SharonEllis · 22/09/2024 21:37

Nobody is pretending its not an issue. Its just a lie. Read the posts. Read the reports and articles.

So a Major General from the IDF talks about Jewish terrorism against people of a different ethnicity and religion and that's the best you can come up with?
Israel is singled out because they are our ally. No doubt if a bigger war erupts we will be expected to support them, why should we? Extremist settlers/racists prevent peace and escalate war and the citizens of Israel have turned a blind eye to it over the last few years.
Injustice is injustice.
Presumably these Jewish terrorists (using the IDF commander's language) are legitimate targets and if their family or any civilians in the vicinity get killed when they are targeted - well that is collateral damage.

mids2019 · 22/09/2024 23:34

I think highlighting this comes with an agenda. We know the US is in parts a conservative Christian nation that backs Israel to the hilt. Are anti Jew pro Palestinians trying to weaken the ties between the US and Israel by pointing out a small number of anti Christian activites.

As Sharon Ellis points out Christians are being mainly persecuted in Muslim countries.

ScrollingLeaves · 22/09/2024 23:38

Limesodaagain · 22/09/2024 22:28

Yes. - but was she talking about it when it was Hamas led violence against Christians in Gaza ?

Re Christians in Gaza under Hamas/Israel, this study organised at Notre Dame gives a measured account.
https://ucs.nd.edu/learn/palestine/

Under Caesar’s Sword
Gaza
Scholarly Analysis: Christian Responses to Persecution in Gaza

Christian Demographics

Between 2014 and 2021, the population of the Gaza Strip increased from 1.8 million to 2 million, according to U.S. government estimates. However, the population of Christians decreased over the same period due to extremely high levels of emigration and declining birth rates. 1,300 Christians now remain in Gaza, down from an estimated 3,000 prior to 2007. A 2014 survey by the YMCA suggests that eighty-nine percent of the Christian population in Gaza are Greek Orthodox, while 9.3 percent are Roman Catholic, and 1.52 percent belong to Baptist and other Protestant denominations.

History of the Gazan Christian Community

Christianity in Gaza dates to the fourth century, and Gaza is home to some of the oldest churches in the world. Hilarion, a leading figure of early Christianity, was the Gazan founder of monastic life in Palestine. After World War II and the establishment of the Israeli state, however, a large number of Christians left the region.

Current Situation of the Gazan Christian Community

Today, Christians in Gaza are squeezed on two fronts. First, Gaza is subject to an Israeli blockade that cripples the economy, contributing to an unemployment rate of around 50 percent, and severely limits freedom of movement for Palestinians. This blockade isolates the small Christian community and prevents them from seeking solidarity with the larger Church or traveling to holy sites. Gazan Christians must seek travel permits to visit family and holy sites in Israel and the West Bank during Christmas. For Christmas in 2021, Israel issued permits for about half of Gaza’s Christian population. Consequently, many Gazan families were unable to travel for Christmas together.

Gaza endured significant armed clashes between Israel and militants in Gaza in 2008-09, 2012, and 2014 that debilitated its already damaged infrastructure and virtually destroyed its ability to produce goods for the domestic market. In May 2021, eleven days of fighting between Hamas and Israel resulted in many civilian casualties and destroyed essential civilian infrastructure in Gaza such as hospitals. A 2012 United Nations report suggested that Gaza could become uninhabitable by 2020 if existing economic and political trends persisted. Ten years on, conditions have not improved, yet 2 million people still inhabit Gaza.

On the other side, Christians are squeezed by the policies of Hamas—the Palestinian offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood—which came to power in 2007. The reign of Hamas began an insidious Islamization process from above and especially from below, which was deepened after the Arab Uprisings of 2011 and the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood in neighboring Egypt.
In 2007, shortly after Hamas gained control of the Gaza Strip, extremists firebombed the last Christian bookstore in Gaza City on two occasions and abducted and killed the bookstore’s owner, who had maintained the store for years despite receiving numerous death threats. Although this level of violence against Gazan Christians has fortunately not continued, Christians in Gaza today are targeted on the basis of their religious faith in ways even more acute and systematic than Christians in the West Bank and Israel. Christians feel coercion to convert to Islam, while Christian women experience harassment and pressure to cover their hair and adopt Islamic forms of attire. In general, Christians are made to feel like second-class citizens, despite their Palestinian patriotism and historical affinity to the land.

Responses to Persecution

In Gaza, as in other parts of the Holy Land, the ecclesiastical and lay responses to the Israeli blockade and to the Islamization of society diverge. On the one hand, the leaders of the ancient churches believe that the only response that would ensure their survival and the protection of their historic heritage, both architectural and cultural, is to remain. But on the other hand, many everyday struggling Christians consider emigration the only option for the preservation of family cohesion and survival, just as many members of the broader Gazan population believe that leaving Gaza is their only hope for a better livelihood.

Christian leaders have sought to ensure the survival of a Christian presence in Gaza through strategies of association. For example, when Muslim leaders began to openly vilify Christians as infidels, Christian leaders sought dialogue with both the imams of the mosques and the leaders from the Islamic establishment. In some instances, Muslim religious leaders desisted from anti-Christian rhetoric. However, Hamas does not address discrimination against Christians, and no measures have been taken to stop the slurring of Christians by, for example, children on the street. Christian churches have also played a patriotic and humanitarian role, emphasizing both solidarity with Palestinian forces resisting Israeli occupation and compassion for civilians impacted by the conflict. During the 2014 Gaza War, for example, the Greek Orthodox Church of Saint Porphyrius opened as a refuge for people of all religious backgrounds fleeing Israeli shells. In 2015, after a funeral in the same church for a civilian killed by an Israeli missile, both Christians and Muslims participated in the victim’s burial.

Continuing a long tradition of friendly relations between Christians and Muslims, churches observe courteous and respectful relations with the authorities, ensuring that on every religious festivity, Christian leaders pay their Muslim counterparts a visit to wish them well, just as Muslim leaders have traditionally attended major Christian religious celebrations. Gazan Christians and Muslims continue to celebrate Christmas together, despite a 2020 Hamas directive attempting to forbid this. However, in essence, the churches in Gaza have little leverage in engaging with the authorities and are therefore in a weak position to hold the authorities accountable for any infringements.

The Greek Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church have also played central roles in providing education for girls and boys in Gaza through their Christian-run schools. These schools, though not entirely immune from attempts at Islamization, have been particularly important for creating a safe enclave for Christians to be educated without intense Islamic indoctrination. One way the Greek Orthodox Church in particular has adapted to the Israeli blockade is by appointing Greek priests to parishes in Gaza and encouraging them to learn Arabic upon arrival. They reason that foreign-born priests are less likely to face mobility restrictions than Arab priests, although the cultural differences can present other problems.

Additionally, churches have sought to support their followers by establishing housing projects on land that has been endowed to them, often through tenancy. They have been unsuccessful, however, in helping the Christian community secure employment. In fact, many Gazan Christians criticize Christian organizations (in particular charitable and developmental ones) for privileging Muslim applicants, a policy they believe to be driven by a desire to appease the Islamic authorities and avoid bureaucratic hurdles. Many fear that faced with the absence of jobs, the only recourse of young Christian men would be to emigrate.

Lay Christians adapt to the Islamization of society in disparate ways. Some Christian men grow their beards so as not to stand out (in other words coping by assimilating). Many women, on the other hand, choose resistance and refuse to don any form of head cover even if it means being exposed to harassment on the streets or restricting their freedom of mobility. Despite these strategies, however, emigration, though always difficult and often impossible, remains the primary strategy of survival. Many leaders fear that if trends are not reversed, the indigenous Christian population in Gaza could become extinct.

This country profile draws on research by Dr. Mariz Tadros and on the report In Response to Persecution by the Under Caesar's Sword project. It was updated by Joseph London at the University of Notre Dame in June 2022.

Gaza // Under Caesar's Sword // University of Notre Dame

Under Caesar’s Sword is a three-year, collaborative global research project that investigates how Christian communities respond when their religious freedom is severely violated.

https://ucs.nd.edu/learn/palestine

TooBigForMyBoots · 23/09/2024 00:31

Limesodaagain · 22/09/2024 22:28

Yes. - but was she talking about it when it was Hamas led violence against Christians in Gaza ?

I have no idea. Do you? Have you been following the OP's posts for a long time?

What I do know is that whataboutery is a shit, unproductive stance used to derail and silence people.

Limesodaagain · 23/09/2024 05:33

TooBigForMyBoots · 23/09/2024 00:31

I have no idea. Do you? Have you been following the OP's posts for a long time?

What I do know is that whataboutery is a shit, unproductive stance used to derail and silence people.

Funny that you say that - because I think you’re trying to silence me …

Limesodaagain · 23/09/2024 05:39

@TooBigForMyBoots
I get the impression you’re not really interested in talking about persecution of Christians after all …

SharonEllis · 23/09/2024 06:20

TooBigForMyBoots · 23/09/2024 00:31

I have no idea. Do you? Have you been following the OP's posts for a long time?

What I do know is that whataboutery is a shit, unproductive stance used to derail and silence people.

The funny thing is the OP & a couple of others didnt really seem that interested in talking about the persecution of christians, just setting the parameters so narrowly that was very little more to be said.

SharonEllis · 23/09/2024 06:25

Thank you @ScrollingLeaves very interesting on different strategies needed for christians in Gaza compared to Israel. This would be classed as whataboutery by some but if you're actually interested in the subject of christians its useful.

YoYoYoYo12345 · 23/09/2024 07:10

SharonEllis · 23/09/2024 06:20

The funny thing is the OP & a couple of others didnt really seem that interested in talking about the persecution of christians, just setting the parameters so narrowly that was very little more to be said.

They aren't interested at all unless it's about Christians in Israel. Very narrow parameters set hence the dislike of discussion of mistreatment of Christians by Hamas, or in the middle east generally. It was so obviously a particular narrative was being set.

However, forget them, some very interesting information has been shared so became an informative thread in the end.

YoYoYoYo12345 · 23/09/2024 07:11

ScrollingLeaves · 22/09/2024 23:38

Re Christians in Gaza under Hamas/Israel, this study organised at Notre Dame gives a measured account.
https://ucs.nd.edu/learn/palestine/

Under Caesar’s Sword
Gaza
Scholarly Analysis: Christian Responses to Persecution in Gaza

Christian Demographics

Between 2014 and 2021, the population of the Gaza Strip increased from 1.8 million to 2 million, according to U.S. government estimates. However, the population of Christians decreased over the same period due to extremely high levels of emigration and declining birth rates. 1,300 Christians now remain in Gaza, down from an estimated 3,000 prior to 2007. A 2014 survey by the YMCA suggests that eighty-nine percent of the Christian population in Gaza are Greek Orthodox, while 9.3 percent are Roman Catholic, and 1.52 percent belong to Baptist and other Protestant denominations.

History of the Gazan Christian Community

Christianity in Gaza dates to the fourth century, and Gaza is home to some of the oldest churches in the world. Hilarion, a leading figure of early Christianity, was the Gazan founder of monastic life in Palestine. After World War II and the establishment of the Israeli state, however, a large number of Christians left the region.

Current Situation of the Gazan Christian Community

Today, Christians in Gaza are squeezed on two fronts. First, Gaza is subject to an Israeli blockade that cripples the economy, contributing to an unemployment rate of around 50 percent, and severely limits freedom of movement for Palestinians. This blockade isolates the small Christian community and prevents them from seeking solidarity with the larger Church or traveling to holy sites. Gazan Christians must seek travel permits to visit family and holy sites in Israel and the West Bank during Christmas. For Christmas in 2021, Israel issued permits for about half of Gaza’s Christian population. Consequently, many Gazan families were unable to travel for Christmas together.

Gaza endured significant armed clashes between Israel and militants in Gaza in 2008-09, 2012, and 2014 that debilitated its already damaged infrastructure and virtually destroyed its ability to produce goods for the domestic market. In May 2021, eleven days of fighting between Hamas and Israel resulted in many civilian casualties and destroyed essential civilian infrastructure in Gaza such as hospitals. A 2012 United Nations report suggested that Gaza could become uninhabitable by 2020 if existing economic and political trends persisted. Ten years on, conditions have not improved, yet 2 million people still inhabit Gaza.

On the other side, Christians are squeezed by the policies of Hamas—the Palestinian offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood—which came to power in 2007. The reign of Hamas began an insidious Islamization process from above and especially from below, which was deepened after the Arab Uprisings of 2011 and the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood in neighboring Egypt.
In 2007, shortly after Hamas gained control of the Gaza Strip, extremists firebombed the last Christian bookstore in Gaza City on two occasions and abducted and killed the bookstore’s owner, who had maintained the store for years despite receiving numerous death threats. Although this level of violence against Gazan Christians has fortunately not continued, Christians in Gaza today are targeted on the basis of their religious faith in ways even more acute and systematic than Christians in the West Bank and Israel. Christians feel coercion to convert to Islam, while Christian women experience harassment and pressure to cover their hair and adopt Islamic forms of attire. In general, Christians are made to feel like second-class citizens, despite their Palestinian patriotism and historical affinity to the land.

Responses to Persecution

In Gaza, as in other parts of the Holy Land, the ecclesiastical and lay responses to the Israeli blockade and to the Islamization of society diverge. On the one hand, the leaders of the ancient churches believe that the only response that would ensure their survival and the protection of their historic heritage, both architectural and cultural, is to remain. But on the other hand, many everyday struggling Christians consider emigration the only option for the preservation of family cohesion and survival, just as many members of the broader Gazan population believe that leaving Gaza is their only hope for a better livelihood.

Christian leaders have sought to ensure the survival of a Christian presence in Gaza through strategies of association. For example, when Muslim leaders began to openly vilify Christians as infidels, Christian leaders sought dialogue with both the imams of the mosques and the leaders from the Islamic establishment. In some instances, Muslim religious leaders desisted from anti-Christian rhetoric. However, Hamas does not address discrimination against Christians, and no measures have been taken to stop the slurring of Christians by, for example, children on the street. Christian churches have also played a patriotic and humanitarian role, emphasizing both solidarity with Palestinian forces resisting Israeli occupation and compassion for civilians impacted by the conflict. During the 2014 Gaza War, for example, the Greek Orthodox Church of Saint Porphyrius opened as a refuge for people of all religious backgrounds fleeing Israeli shells. In 2015, after a funeral in the same church for a civilian killed by an Israeli missile, both Christians and Muslims participated in the victim’s burial.

Continuing a long tradition of friendly relations between Christians and Muslims, churches observe courteous and respectful relations with the authorities, ensuring that on every religious festivity, Christian leaders pay their Muslim counterparts a visit to wish them well, just as Muslim leaders have traditionally attended major Christian religious celebrations. Gazan Christians and Muslims continue to celebrate Christmas together, despite a 2020 Hamas directive attempting to forbid this. However, in essence, the churches in Gaza have little leverage in engaging with the authorities and are therefore in a weak position to hold the authorities accountable for any infringements.

The Greek Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church have also played central roles in providing education for girls and boys in Gaza through their Christian-run schools. These schools, though not entirely immune from attempts at Islamization, have been particularly important for creating a safe enclave for Christians to be educated without intense Islamic indoctrination. One way the Greek Orthodox Church in particular has adapted to the Israeli blockade is by appointing Greek priests to parishes in Gaza and encouraging them to learn Arabic upon arrival. They reason that foreign-born priests are less likely to face mobility restrictions than Arab priests, although the cultural differences can present other problems.

Additionally, churches have sought to support their followers by establishing housing projects on land that has been endowed to them, often through tenancy. They have been unsuccessful, however, in helping the Christian community secure employment. In fact, many Gazan Christians criticize Christian organizations (in particular charitable and developmental ones) for privileging Muslim applicants, a policy they believe to be driven by a desire to appease the Islamic authorities and avoid bureaucratic hurdles. Many fear that faced with the absence of jobs, the only recourse of young Christian men would be to emigrate.

Lay Christians adapt to the Islamization of society in disparate ways. Some Christian men grow their beards so as not to stand out (in other words coping by assimilating). Many women, on the other hand, choose resistance and refuse to don any form of head cover even if it means being exposed to harassment on the streets or restricting their freedom of mobility. Despite these strategies, however, emigration, though always difficult and often impossible, remains the primary strategy of survival. Many leaders fear that if trends are not reversed, the indigenous Christian population in Gaza could become extinct.

This country profile draws on research by Dr. Mariz Tadros and on the report In Response to Persecution by the Under Caesar's Sword project. It was updated by Joseph London at the University of Notre Dame in June 2022.

Thanks for sharing. Very detailed and interesting.

SharonEllis · 23/09/2024 07:28

@YoYoYoYo12345 yes, very interesting. I was struck by the awful dilemma for Christians in Gaza, which is mirrored elesewhere, as to whether to stay to protect their sites and connection to them or go, to save their lives, first because of internal persecution & then war.

YoYoYoYo12345 · 23/09/2024 07:39

They really are at risk throughout the region

"Many leaders fear that if trends are not reversed, the indigenous Christian population in Gaza could become extinct".

Such a very small number left there

ScrollingLeaves · 23/09/2024 11:21

Re: back to Christians in Jerusalem this +972 article July 2023,

in spite of its headlines, is detailed and comprehensive imo, covering not only the difficulties for Christians from Israeli settlers, but also difficulties for Christians from Muslims, difficulties experienced by Jews from Christians historically, and modern difficulties for Jews resulting from fear of proselytising, fundamentalist, Christian Zionist movement factions from abroad.

Though I posted it before, that was a few pages ago, so if anyone is interested here it is:
https://www.972mag.com/jerusalem-christians-future-israel/

Limesodaagain · 23/09/2024 13:30

Silence1 · 23/09/2024 10:56

Indeed as they are currently dying - killed by sniper fire or rockets. 11 have died due to untreated chronic conditions because of Israel's siege on Gaza and that was the figure in Feb this year. "Collateral damage" of course
Aid to the Church in Need | HOLY LAND: 30 Christians dead in Gaza since war started (acnuk.org)

This conflict has caused terrible suffering for innocent civilians on all sides. I am sure we are all in agreement that we want it to end.

Limesodaagain · 23/09/2024 16:05

I leave this as my final contribution
acnuk.org/news/holy-land-when-the-wounds-are-still-bleeding-it-is-not-the-time-to-speak-of-politics-cardinal/

LastNight1Dreamt1WentToManderleyAgain · 26/09/2024 22:08

At first I thought this would be about the Armenian Quarter in Jerusalem! I am surprised by all the different ways the thread has gone. Speaking as a Christian, yes, Jerusalem is special. In my faith, Christ is uniquely the Son of God. Each of us has a personal relationship to Him. God doesn't come to earth a lot like in some other religions. He also isn't impersonal. He's someone who loves us enough to die for us. He chose Jerusalem to die in as it is a city of prophets. His resurrection is our promise of eternal life. You don't have to believe this, but this Person who loved and suffered is the heart of Christianity. So Jerusalem isn't comparable to any other old holy place. And some Christians in the Holy Land are descended from people who knew Him. Let's forget the religion part of it. Let's just think about how a person makes a place special. Like you might care about the Brontës in Haworth or whatever. Focusing on Israel in this context is not about bashing the modern state of Israel. It's just incredibly upsetting if His followers are not safe in His chosen earthly home. No single Abrahamic religion has the right to define the holiness of the Holy Land, regardless of the modern political conflicts.

TooBigForMyBoots · 27/09/2024 03:02

Limesodaagain · 23/09/2024 05:33

Funny that you say that - because I think you’re trying to silence me …

Huh? How am I trying to silence you?

The OP started a thread about the persecution of Israeli Christians. You want to talk about the persecution of Christians elsewhere in the world so I invited you to start your own thread about it, and stop derailing this one.

Christian persecution differs from country to country. This thread is about what's happening in Israel under Netanyahu's RW government. You want to talk about persecution in Iran or Gaza or Saudi? I say go for it.

That is not "silencing".Hmm

TooBigForMyBoots · 27/09/2024 03:21

Limesodaagain · 23/09/2024 16:05

Apologies, I see you've made your final post on this thread.Thanks

headstone · 27/09/2024 07:18

Following this thread with interest. It appears you cannot discuss Christian persecution in the holy land without discussing their persecution everywhere else in the world and hence diluting the thread so much it becomes a meaningless discussion on what the actual focus is on. So does that mean only Muslim suffering in this area should be discussed? Even Muslim suffering is swiftly dismissed various techniques. There are agendas at play here. How else can a destruction of a people be justified.

SharonEllis · 27/09/2024 07:49

headstone · 27/09/2024 07:18

Following this thread with interest. It appears you cannot discuss Christian persecution in the holy land without discussing their persecution everywhere else in the world and hence diluting the thread so much it becomes a meaningless discussion on what the actual focus is on. So does that mean only Muslim suffering in this area should be discussed? Even Muslim suffering is swiftly dismissed various techniques. There are agendas at play here. How else can a destruction of a people be justified.

Nobody is justifying the destruction of a people. Everyone is discussing the treatment of Christians in the region.

Swipe left for the next trending thread