Christians in Jerusalem

[EasterIssland]

found this in Twitter today about the current situation of Christians in Jerusalem (West bank and East Jerusalem) and the struggles they’re going through

https://premierchristian.news/en/news/article/christians-in-holy-land-desperate-over-lack-of-work-and-upsurge-in-religious-hatred

The situation for Christians is especially desperate as most of them work in the tourism sector, which has been at a standstill since the conflict began.

The source told ACN that for Christians “wearing a cross can get you into trouble.
“Sometimes you have to hide your identity in your own homeland to avoid problems.
“The presence in the area of groups with increasingly radical elements makes our situation even more difficult.”

As usual it's the same old:

Person 1 "Israel are doing something bad"

Person 2 "Ooh, why you picking on Israel? Why didn't you look over there, or there, or over there" and points to some third world countries or countries that are not so called democracies or that are labelled as 'the beacon of fairness and democracy in the middle east'.

Classic deflection and whataboutery.

It is a sad state of affairs when freedom of speech is curtailed this way.
It's incorrect and a bit overdramatic to state that a discussion not going the way you want it to is freedom of speech being curtailed. No-one's been prevented from saying their piece, nor are they in any danger for doing so.

The report was interesting and acknowledges the recent rise in harassment of Christians and vandalism of Christian sites. In the context of this thread, it's also helpful to focus on the question of religious freedom with regards to how Israel scored compared to their immediate neighbours:
D4 (0-4 points) Are individuals free to practice and express their religious faith or nonbelief in public and private?
Israel 3/4
Jordan 2/4
Lebanon 3/4
Egypt 1/4
Gaza 1/4
Syria 2/4
West Bank 2/4

Thank you, this is such a helpful and relevant contribution to the thread topic.

But here, Israel aren’t doing “something bad”.

The increase in religious hatred towards Christians described here is the same as the increase in religious hatred being experienced by Jewish people and Muslims globally since 7 October.

It would be outrageous to say the U.K. is doing “something bad” because of the rise of antisemitism and Islamophobia since October 7. Nor could that conversation ever been focused solely on the U.K. as it is happening globally.

Interesting article by Sam Stein . The Palestinian Christians are also Israeli citizens and their house was demolished by the IDF in 2019.
When I see the photos of the family fronting up the IDF I think they are so incredibly brave like many other evicted Palestinians. We know the IDF shot the peaceful American protester in the head. Another "accident" and I recall the video of a settler shooting an unarmed Palestinian in the stomach with an IDF soldier standing there doing nothing.
I am glad to hear people oppose it but in Israel it appears just words without meaning: settler violence has been escalating along side more attacks on Christians for several years now
Same BS as the USA they say settlers are terrible and then Kamala Harris hosts the first known Passover Seder at the Vice President residence and she pops illegal settler wine on the table. Of course heralded in the Israeli press.

"With most legal disputes between Palestinians and Israelis in the West Bank, there is a de jure imbalance. Israelis enjoy the liberties of Israeli civil law while Palestinians are subject to military law; since members of the Kisiya family are Israeli citizens, they fall under the former. The legal proceedings between the Kisiya family and the settlers claiming the land should, theoretically, take place on equal footing. "
In the West Bank, Even Israeli Citizens Are Being Evicted by Illegal Settlers - Progressive.org

the reason this family have been evicted/ mistreated is not in account of their Christianity but more to do with their ethnicity (Palestinian) . The thread title seems to suggest this family have been targeted because of their religion. I think it’s an attempt to paint Israel as being anti Christianity and I think that’s an unhelpful contribution in an inflammatory situation.
edited to add - the mistreatment of Palestinians in Jerusalem is obviously wrong but it is misleading to suggest it’s on account of their Christian religion.

@Limesodaagain That's your take but for the people involved :

"Ms Kisiya said that Al-Makhrour was one of the majority-Christian areas of the West Bank, and that the campaign to protect the land for Palestinian habitation was “about the protection we ask for the Christians of Bethlehem”."

"The Dean of St George’s College, Jerusalem, the Very Revd Canon Richard Sewell, who attended the march, said this week that the “cry of the Kisiya family must be heard”, and that the family “must be restored to what is theirs by legal right”.

If the Kisiya family were not protected, “all Christians become more vulnerable,” he said. “Imagine the day when there may be no Christians left in the birthplace of Jesus Christ.”"

I agree that the treatment of the Kisiya family is wrong.
The diminishing population of Christians in the Holy Land has long been a concern and there are many reasons for this.
I support charities that provide help to Palestinian Christians. I just don’t want this conflict to be painted as one of Jew vs Christian and Muslim.
I think it is Israeli vs Palestinian ( and that is bad enough heaven knows)

https://www.churchinneed.org/church-continues-to-serve-struggling-families-in-the-holy-land/

The actions of extremist settlers who terrorise Palestinians ( of whatever religion) are unacceptable. But a greater proportion of the Palestinian suffering ( Muslim and Christian alike) should be laid at the door of Hamas .

What would be outrageous about criticising or highlighting issues of antisemitism and Islamophobia in the UK, and considering local factors contributing to those issues?

Are you saying the conditions for Christians in Jerusalem at the hands of Israeli settler extremists cannot be discussed within its own context because other Muslim countries go further and kill Christians?

And that because other Middle Eastern sites are also historically Christian, the thinking that regards Jerusalem as being particularly sacred to Christianity is spurious?

Those who sing Christmas carols in a few months will not be thinking of Mary and Joseph and baby Jesus in Iran.

I agree with you it is over dramatic by that poster to suggest freedom of speech is curtailed seeing the number and range of comments rather than the usual small number of posters nodding along.

Thank you for that analysis of freedom to practice (Christianity) alongside many middle Eastern countries. That's really interesting.

I tend to agree with this assessment to. Sadly the mistreatment of Palestinian people by settlers is a massive problem.

Challenging posts is what a chat forum is all about. Some people don't like it and would happily shut down wider discussions which helps no one really.

I agree it is interesting to see that list, and that Christians have been safer under Israel than those predominantly Muslim countries.

Isn’t the point being discussed in this thread, that it would be wrong if the Christians remaining in Israel/Palestine were now to be driven out by Israeli extremist, nationalist settlers after 2000 years, while this present government with its similarly right wing extremism faction having too much power, allows this harassment of and theft from Christians?

Yes, agreed, that would be very wrong.

I agree that Christians are far safer in Israel and I also agree it would be awful if settlers chased them off. I think the settlers need stopping. I also wish people would stop ignoring the plight of Christians in the middle east and at least by opening up this originally narrow thread focus it is talked about.

Re the mistreatment of Christians at the hands of settlers being due to them being Palestinian, not due to them being Christian.

This is probably largely true. Some of the articles posted earlier on this thread though also showed that a cemetery and a statue had been damaged, which does seem to indicate a motive of wanting to
attack the religion too.

That’s not what I said.

It seemed to me as though you might be saying that criticising or highlighting issues of anti-semitism and Islamophobia in the U.K. [ but in your argument the equivalent of this for Christians re. Israel] is wrong when anti-semitism and Islamophobia should be discussed in relation to other countries, not the U.K, as it is far worse for Jews and Muslims in those other countries than it us in the U.K. -
with an allegation that the only reason for bringing the U.K. into it is U.K. bashing ( this last argument though was possibly from another poster.)

Again, that’s not what I said.

Rather than pondering on what I might be saying, it would be better to read what I actually said. And the ridiculous post I was responding to.

I don’t think this is on the thread so far, if so I apologise. Here is a link to an excellent, nuanced and detailed article about Christians in Jerusalem written in July 2023 by +972 magazine.

It covers some points no one on this thread has mentioned so far too, so it may be of real interest to anyone here who has not seen it:
https://www.972mag.com/jerusalem-christians-future-israel/

Yep. This is how it came across.

I don’t think this Guardian article has yet been linked?The Kesiya family are mentioned, and much more besides.

www.theguardian.com/world/2024/sep/21/senior-church-of-england-bishops-accuse-israel-of-acting-above-law-in-west-bank

Nope.

I simply said that since 7 October religious tensions have increased everywhere. So it is not surprising that tensions have also increased in Israel.

I didn’t say at all that Islmaophobia and antisemitism in the U.K. shouldn’t be discussed, or that it is worse elsewhere. I simply said that it is not limited to the U.K. and is happening across Europe, America etc. So it would be wrong to judge any one country for this, when it is a global trend.

I was also responding to someone who said that “Israel are doing something bad”. I’m not conformtable demonising another country for increases in religious hatred when that same religious hatred is a problem here to the extent that Jewish schools actually need security to keep the children who attend there safe.