"The only purpose of these marches is to intimidate British Jews" (part three)

[stomachamelon]

Carrying on from part two....

To clarify, yes my post, in which I thanked Ella who I had promised to reply to with an explanation was deleted.

Upsetting. Depressing. More than.

But maybe illuminating.

The core of the explanation was:

As Kestrelmoon said I was using a reference to the wonderful Wizard of Oz to highlight Catsknowthe answers's attempt to discourage folk from reading the link posted by Peasefulperson about The Campaign Against Antisemitism. As in - don't look there/at that, no need - listen to me. I can tell you all you need to know. A desperate ploy.

Hence the reference to the desperate Oz.

So no "tropes".

No antisemitism.

I am also keeping a copy of this post.

As we’re aiming to answer queries in approx 1-2 business days, I realised I didn’t answer your question-

I didn’t object to your interpretation of their post. Your post was an explanation of why the “man behind the curtain” reference was used with regards to links. I already understood this. My post that you were quoting in your reply had been questioning why use that allusion at all in relation to any Jewish organisation, as it’s so reminiscent of the puppet master trope- clearly recognisably offensive to some but not to others.

I don’t know whether my use of the word “linking” caused some confusion but we were talking at cross purposes, so “that’s not it at all” was in answer to your misinterpretation of and reply to my post.

I hope that answers your question.

@25milesfromhome it's all getting a bit conspiracy theory ;)

That is very perceptive @stomachamelon
The thread title of whoever you were quoting: “The only purpose of these marches is to intimidate British Jews"

They were being a bit conspiracy theory ifykwim

They were implying that these hundreds of thousands of U.K. residents have conspired a fake cause because the only purpose of the marches is to intimidate we British Jews.

There is apparently no good reason to march even with approx 100 children being killed every day; which equates to a primary school full of children being killed every 3 days.

Imagine your village, town, borough- if one primary school full of children is killed every 3 days, how many days would it take for all the children in your village or town or borough to be killed? How much loss and devastation would that cause your community?

We are now at more children killed in 4 months of war (Oct-Feb) in this one country than in the rest of world in all wars over the past 4 years.
https://www.msnbc.com/top-stories/latest/death-toll-children-gaza-israel-rcna143269

But to the person you quoted, that is a nothing to see here issue, the marches are really only to intimidate people like me, or more likely, they are a provocateur dangling rage bait.

Please see the points of note about the thread title.

Sorry, why did you repost this? I appreciate your viewpoint, but don’t see how it connects to my post? You were talking to me? Or not?

Because you tried to use criticism of thread title to segue to a criticism of Israel.

There are many, many other threads to criticise Israel on. Attempts to derail threads onto that topic while pretending to look like you are being relevant are pretty obvious now.

“The only purpose of these marches is to intimidate British Jews"

The marches referenced by the title criticise Israel’s military response to the October 7th terror attack. Mentioning that fact in the context of the thread title which is about the purpose of the marches is not a derailment.

My post is questioning whether the statement itself, the statement the series of threads are regarding is genuine or was put out there to provoke, divide and other me and other Jewish Brits,

Your concern for my safety is noted, but the list of dos and donts that you have posted to make me feel less anxious are not required, not asked for, not necessary and in a way make me more anxious because

I question the intentions of the author of this conspiracy theory type statement:
“The only purpose of these marches is to intimidate British Jews"

As it has created an us versus them circumstance.

As it assumes we Jewish people are intimidated by the peace marches. It implies that Jewish communities are not at all concerned about Palestinian civilian deaths. We are only concerned about feeling intimidated by the marches- that paints us as faintly narcisstic caring more about our feelings than tens of thousands of civilians dying.

It is the kind of statement that others me, it separates me from being one of the marchers to a target being intimated by the marchers. A target that is more concerned with my own feelings than the deaths of over ten thousand children. It doesn’t cast me and other Jews in a good light.

It looks and feels like faux concern. This is not a criticism of Israel, in case you think it is. This post and the one before were both criticism of the author of the statement that was adopted into the title of these threads:
”“The only purpose of these marches is to intimidate British Jews"

edited to fix typo

I would have to agree that it’s not derailment, when the thread title invites a discussion regarding the purpose of the marches.

Thank you @KestrelMoon for adding a different Jewish perspective to the discussion. This thread has been very divisive and unwelcoming to anyone who does not agree with a certain view.

If you don't feel the title or the sentiment applies to you then fine. But you also speak only for yourself.

As do we all.

This thread has been very divisive and unwelcoming to anyone who does not agree with a certain view.

This is literally the case for every thread in this section.

Yes, we have gone back on forth on who agrees or disagrees as to whether the marches are intimidating.

NobleG summarised accurately that the majority disagree and no one is calling for a ban on the marches.

To me, the statement is so obviously disagreeable to a majority, that I see it as a provocative comment that is inherently divisive as it firmly sets us (Jews) vs them (the marchers) with an action being intimidation.

That is the dynamic the statement is establishing.

I am delving into the why was it said? Did the author mean to deliberately divide and provoke?

While this is true, I think Peasful was agreeing with me that the statement itself:
"The only purpose of these marches is to intimidate British Jews"

is brilliantly engineered to cause division within any group.

Your concern for my safety is noted, but the list of dos and donts that you have posted to make me feel less anxious are not required

I'm afraid that you saying 'I don't find them intimidating' doesn't overrule the list at all, and in fact meets the last criteria of claiming 'some Jews say it's fine therefore it's fine'.

Each of the entries on my list were arrived at by reason. As in, is it reasonable to object to these things happening on the streets of London.

You don't have to be Jewish to find intimidating people, cosplaying as terrorists, calling for terrorist activity or shouting terrorist slogans to be unreasonable, or to identify comparing Jews to Nazis as antisemitic.

Original article:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12878659/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-marches-intimidate-British-Jews-tolerate-hatred-streets.html

That’s fine, but I am trying to open a discussion of not on whether you agree or disagree or who is most right but

1. Why was the statement said and
2. The consequences of the statement on myself as a Jewish peace protester.

I hope that is more clear. I am not looking for you overrule me, or I overrule you. We have discussed the agree/disagree with the statement many many times. Let’s look a bit deeper, into the whys and impacts.

Very good point. All opinions should be considered; that's the way we learn. Now can you please reiterate this point on some of the other threads, where every opposing point of view is met with derision and hostility?

This.

There are a large number of other threads that misinterpret what you say if you don't parrot what the regulars say.

I already posted my opinion of Richard Littlejohn and his piece on the first thread of this series, I'm not particularly interested in discussing that obnoxious twat any further, however those on the far right are using antisemitism to stir up Islamophobia. The likes of Tommy Robinson suddenly being concerned about the plight of the Jews is only because they've calculated that they hate Muslims more.

You have said that my list of requirements for the marches are unnecessary and make you feel more anxious.

Why would suggesting that people do not shout terrorist slogans or cosplay as terrorists or intimidate McDonald's customers make you feel more anxious? That's an odd reaction. More anxious of what? A backlash from those who want to shout terrorist slogans and intimidate people?

Excellent post.

https://nypost.com/2023/12/08/news/israeli-hostage-naama-levys-mom-speaks-out-each-minute-an-eternity-in-hell/

I wonder why it is so hard for people on the marches to call these people terrorists, but hey she's a soldier according to some on here.

@KestrelMoon

As it assumes we Jewish people are intimidated by the peace marches.

More misinterpretation. It doesn’t assume British Jews are intimidated- it assumes the only purpose of these marches is to intimidate British Jews ( I don’t agree with this sentiment btw). This obsession with nit picking over a title used as a starting point for a discussion is getting really tiresome.

It implies that Jewish communities are not at all concerned about Palestinian civilian deaths. We are only concerned about feeling intimidated by the marches- that paints us as faintly narcisstic caring more about our feelings than tens of thousands of civilians dying.

This is such a massive leap. And a really insulting one. This actually comes across as someone who’s fearful that their fellow protestors will turn on them if they don’t virtue signal in the approved way.

It is the kind of statement that others me, it separates me from being one of the marchers to a target being intimated by the marchers. A target that is more concerned with my own feelings than the deaths of over ten thousand children.

March, protest for peace, do what you think is right, express your opinion, no-one is stopping you. Various posters on here have said many times that Jewish people have joined marches without incident and their presence is welcome. If you’re worried about being othered or made a target by the suggestion that there are antisemitic elements in the marches that some Jews might find intimidating, that’s on you and the behaviour of your fellow marchers, not some random article.
This anxiety over backlash from other protestors for questioning some of the behaviour on marches raises the question of whether a Jewish marcher might feel they could raise the issue if there was something they perceived as bigotry/hostility towards Jews and why that’s a problem.

It doesn’t cast me and other Jews in a good light.

Nonsense. You seem very concerned about society’s approval of Jews, no need to shoehorn us all into that.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/03/16/pro-palestinian-activists-target-mps-litany-of-menace/

You need to be able to log in to read all of this or do the free trial.

It could be suggested that the only point of this thread is to demonise the marches and stop people from protesting for Palestine.

Would this statement be OK as a starting point for discussion?