"The only purpose of these marches is to intimidate British Jews" (part three)

[stomachamelon]

Carrying on from part two....

There’s certainly a whiff of something about it…

do please elaborate

If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.

Your anti Israeli ‘Jewish friend’ is a bit of a tokenist cliche employed by anti Semites to push their racist ideology.
Not saying that you are anti Semitic but it’s a common trope.

The ‘man behind the curtain’?
@Offwiththecircus are you aware that the idea of a shadow puppet master Jew controlling the narrative (or the media in modern times) is an extremely strong, historical, antisemitic trope ? Perhaps unintentionally, this is reading like a smear campaign, against a Jewish group against antisemitism, using typical antisemitic tropes to discredit them. It’s highly offensive - please consider how this comes across to Jews reading your posts.

@EllaDisenchanted they are aware of what they are both doing and saying.

Nice to know that as a British Jewish woman marching for peace between Israel and Palestine that I am just a “tokenist cliche employed by anti-semites to push their racist ideology” which sounds a lot like an updated, new and improved version of the earlier “scarf wearing useful idiot” trope that was peddled in Part 1 of the thread.

We are human beings not pack/herd animals, and as human beings we don’t all have the same opinion on everything. Some of us disagree with the marches and counter-march, while others of us do agree and join in.

The poster before you wasn’t employing a trope because they stated:
”Your sweeping reference to "jews" is curious indeed.
"Jews" Are not a single block. In fact to suggest that they are sounds like an anti semitic generalisation.”

But your rebuke of them was trying to generalise, you attached a screen grab claiming that 80% of American Jews are Zionists. Which is literally tokenising American Jews to be speaking on behalf of all Jews.

Got to admire the chutzpah to post a rebuke, saying antisemitic tokenism is bad, don’t do it while simultaneously doing it!

(We don’t need you to be offended on our behalf. Let us speak or report if a poster offends any one of us.)

The poster literally reported the news that Jewish Voice for Labour is criticising Campaign Against Anti-Semitism for conflating anti-Israeli government views with anti-Semitism.

This is a disagreement between two Jewish groups with opposing views.

A Jewish group, like Jewish Voice for Labour by definition cannot engage in a “smear campaign” “using antisemitic tropes to try and discredit” Campaign Against AntiSemitism.

“Man behind the curtain” is a literary reference to the Wizard of Oz making/using smoke and mirrors to create illusions to fool people as to what the reality was.

It refers to not looking beneath the surface to what’s going on underneath. The poster was referring to posters should read what is linked for themselves and not just accept the surface presentation of it.

That reference doesn’t refer to a “shadow puppet master” that controls everything.

Offended or informed.
Ella is one of the peacemakers on this forum.

A Jewish group, like Jewish Voice for Labour by definition cannot engage in a “smear campaign” “using antisemitic tropes to try and discredit” Campaign Against AntiSemitism.

You don't appear to know who Jewish Voice for Labour are, they're not a serious Jewish group and you don't need to be Jewish to be a member, they were created to protect Corbyn from claims of antisemitism. One of the co-founders was expelled from Labour for supporting antisemitic groups, Jackie Walker (expelled for antisemitism) was a member. They supported Chris Williamson and campaigned for him to be readmitted etc etc.

(We don’t need you to be offended on our behalf. Let us speak or report if a poster offends any one of us.)

Ella speaks on her own behalf.

@EllaDisenchanted hardly needs to be lectured on how she chooses to perceive something or react to it. She speaks for herself (and Ella would probably say that a lot more diplomatically than me).

There’s nothing wrong with criticism and debate amongst Jewish groups and people with differing views, but of course a Jewish group can employ antisemitic tropes and language. JVL are not exempt from this simply by virtue of being a Jewish organisation, although I’m not sure how many of their members are actually Jewish.

ETA Gah, slow typing means always chiming in after it’s already been said.

Apparently she speaks on my behalf too!
”It’s highly offensive - please consider how this comes across to Jews reading your posts.”

Are you saying I’m not allowed to object to that?

Are you saying I’m not allowed to object to that?

I'm confused, are you saying she shouldn't be offended on her own behalf?

A Jewish group, like Jewish Voice for Labour by definition cannot engage in a “smear campaign” “using antisemitic tropes to try and discredit” Campaign Against AntiSemitism.

I've heard it all now! 😂

The amount of damage this group have caused British Jews, including left wing Jews (like me), is incalculable. A thoroughly nasty bunch of people.

You could have just said that’s not how you interpreted it and you didn’t find it offensive? Your opinion is equally valid.

Jewish Voice for Labour (JVL) is a Jewish-led organisation for members of the labour, trade union, socialist and progressive movements.

Then why didn’t SHE say “I am offended” rather than saying “It is highly offensive- please consider how this comes across to Jews reading your post”

I am Jewish and I wasn’t offended because I know the literary reference and its meaning. Ella appears to have never come across it before and had a naturally uninformed reaction to it.

That doesn't contradict anything I've said. You don't have to be Jewish to be a member of Jewish Voice for Labour, whose members include those expelled from Labour for antisemitism, and those who campaign in favour of those expelled from Labour for antisemitism.

I did recognise the Oz reference but why link “pay no attention to the man behind the curtain” to a Jewish organisation campaigning against antisemitism if you don’t mean to imply a puppet master trope? It’s just lazy stereotyping.

Or maybe her information is different to yours.

The rest of what you wrote is gornisht helfn.

The fact that non Jewish allies can be members isn’t the discrediting you think it is. It is still a Jewish led organisation.

The fact that some members have faced allegations of antisemtism when the main issue is that anti-Israeli government or anti-Zionist opinions are being conflated with antisemtism; doesn’t mean they are antisemites.

Would you consider Chris Williamson to be an antisemite?

What does Zionism mean to you kestrel?

That wasn’t the context. The context was links not being read:

”Interesting that you are at such pains to discourage folks from reading the link. I can also spare folk a few seconds of their time by quoting two short passages from it.”
and
”Thank you for highlighting the link. I may post more for folks interested in The Campaign Against Antisemitism. Shouldn't be too hard - I also get regular mailings for them. You may of course suggest that folk don't read them/pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.”

They did not link man behind the curtain to an organisation, but as an allusion to posters discouraging other posters to read what is linked in the thread.