This picture of Israeli soldiers smiling for a selfie in front of a destroyed Gaza...

[changefromhr]

I know there are lots of pictures. I try to avoid looking as its just so awful but this one couldn't be avoided.

How sickening that the soldiers can smile and act so happy in front of all that destruction.

This is just another picture, from the thousands, that shows how the Palestinians and their lives and homes are seen as worthless.

@quantumbutterfly Lol that’s a new accusation but I’m okay with it because at least I don’t think it’s ok for yet another Western nation to coerce submission by extreme violence and call it peace. We have enough countries who have managed to desensitise the world to their shit behaviour through centuries of oppression. There is inherent racism in the idea Israel should just be able to hop on the apparatus they’ve built.

And my point is that it is a snapshot, we don't know if they were disciplined for it.

We don't know anything, but conclusions are drawn like picking up a fragment of pottery and extrapolating it to a temple complex and thriving market town.

Offence is taken to suit a narrative.

Of course BOTH images are horrific.
People simply cannot behave this way unless they believe the 'other' is somehow sub-human. It worries me that the Israeli leader, Netanyahu, speaks about all Palestinians in such terms. Of course the hostages should be freed (& should never have been taken by HAMAS anyway) but what is happening in Gaza is genocide. A Two State solution, monitored by a 3rd party / the UN is the only answer.

Are you defining Israel as a western nation? Is that how they define themselves?

You have contextualised the photo to suit your own purpose.
The irony, once again!
You must lead a rarified life.
Please look up the meaning of the adjective rarified and how to use it.
War is bloody and hellish.
"The Israeli decision to rain death and destruction on Gaza, to use lethal weapons of the modern battlefield on a largely defenceless civilian population, is the final phase in a decades-long campaign to ethnically-cleanse Palestinians.
Israel uses sophisticated attack jets and naval vessels to bomb densely crowded refugee camps, schools, apartment blocks, mosques, and slums to attack a population that has no air force, no air defence, no navy, no heavy weapons, no artillery units, no mechanized armour, no command in control, no army… and calls it a war. It is not a war, it is murder."
Not my words, the word of Noam Chomsky. I tend to agree with him. Why don't you?

Have I woken the primary school teacher in you again? On your day off too.

You've answered it. To quite some extent the operation depends on this very cohort of foot soldiers. It seems the issue facing some is their inability to reconcile with just how much this cohort rely on social media engagement to boost their endorphins, because it's damaging the optics.

I haven't taught for 6 years but it is quite revealing that you chose to comment on this point only, but ignored the rest. Very interesting.

Of course I wasn't. In fact I was just one of a number of people pointing out that that picture is hardly the worst picture taken during the war.

Thank you for that.

@quantumbutterfly Seems you've changed tack with the comment:

Are you defining Israel as a western nation? Is that how they define themselves?

Are you hoping that by veering wildly from the point@MCOut made will work as a gotcha of sorts? Or that you get a chance to engage in a new fangled argument of the definition of 'Western nation'?

Not changing tack at all.

Israel is a middle eastern country, the comment shows a poor knowledge of geography.

As though Israel itself is not inconstant in this. Always staunchly Middle Eastern when characterised as a white colonialist project. Then when it suits painting this picture of a superior civilised liberal democracy ideologically aligned with the West and committed to the preservation of human rights.

The former argument may be simplistic, but nobody can pretend there hasn’t been a consistent willingness to weaponise this “westerness” and by extension proximity to whiteness. In my opinion, this is why certain people find it so unfathomable that Israel and the behaviour of IDF members like these women continue to be rightly criticised.

Hmmm because, according to your logic, somewhere like Australia is not western… ok

Above all else I hope universities aren't teaching students in economics, political science / international relations or even history anything that refers to the novel concept of the west. It would do a disservice to a student who will one day haphazardly use a rhetorical fallacy then opt for ignorance at the most elementary level, instead.

And what about the countless rapes by the IDF on Palestinian women, men and children? Will you confirm that they are abhorrent?

Because they are quite happy using them to shoot Palestinians i can imagine.

Between selfies of course.

@StarbucksSmarterSister I believe you are correct this picture is not the worst thing that has happened in the war. That does not mean people can’t be upset and disturbed by it.

Also, it is potentially hypocritical of you to say that as weren’t you very upset about the protestors with inappropriate placards? Which of course is appalling behaviour and must be dealt with. But it is not more disturbing than the death of 11,000, or is it 12,000 now, children.

I believe this instance is even worse, because not only are these smiling faces implying a lack of concern for the killing of people and destruction of buildings in Gaza, they are directly responsible for it.

I wonder if they'd use the same excuse/justification, for want of a better word, if these were young and naive Hamas members? Or would they say they knew exactly what they were doing young or not.

I’m fairly sure we know the answer to that, sadly.

It’s not an isolated incident. These aren’t occurrences that can be dismissed as out of character acts by scared, naive, inexperienced soldiers, or just a few “bad apples” as some posters have tried to do. The behavior is too widespread and systemic for it to be written off as that. They have mandatory military service in Israel. Women over 18 need to do at least 2 years conscription. Longer for men. It’s highly likely this isn’t the first time they have put on a uniform. Most of those serving in Gaza are reservists who have been called up. 300,000 of them. This means they are people from all walks of Israeli society. If anything, the fact these types of videos and photos are so widespread now just go to show how common and deeply rooted the disregard and contempt for Palestinian human life is amongst a significant proportion of Israeli society.

It's interesting from a psychological point of view. I also just saw some footage of members of the Israeli public playing music and dancing as they block aid trucks going in to Gaza. I can't quite fathom it.

@stormy4319trevor well whilst they're blocking aid from entering, I saw a video that was shared by an Israeli soldier of a tank driving over food. The music to video was so joyful. Sickening.

But they are all innocent people. What happened to Shani Louk was horrific. These photos are horrific- neither justifies the other. I’m not minimising what Hamas did or do. I don’t support them at all. But these dead women most likely had nothing to do with Shani.

If you think it’s ok to kill, maim and traumatise a majority because some of them were Hamas, I think you have reached a point were you have dehumanised people. Why are innocent Palestinian lives so expendable?

I find it so difficult to understand their motivations. This is an interesting article with a leading Israeli settler in the West Bank that gives a bit of an insight into the mind of this type of person.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-extreme-ambitions-of-west-bank-settlers

The process of getting aid into Gaza is extremely long and complicated, causing unnecessary delays. Israel can reject items deemed at risk of potential military use like generators, clutches, field hospital kits, inflatable water tanks, children's toys and oxygen tanks. Turns out the meticulous inspections also mean if inspectors reject one item on a truck, the entire cargo must restart the process.
Mind you, all this is happening while families, men, women, children starve to death. A picture of the queuing aid trucks can be seen in the article below.

https://www.ft.com/content/d7bbd8c3-6c44-4687-a93e-48969d37373d