Terrorist leader speaks out

[Peggysoonerthanlater]

Now you have it for the horse's mouth -

Yahya Sinwar: Hamas leader in Gaza didn't expect consequences of 7 October attack to be 'this dangerous', says friend

Updated Wed, 14 February 2024 at 10:02 pm GMT

The top Hamas leader in Gaza, Yahya Sinwar, was one of the main planners of the 7 October attack on Israel but did not expect the consequences to become "this dangerous", a friend has told Sky News.
Esmat Mansour (who has been in prison with Sinwar) said last year's cross-border raid was supposed to be a strategic operation designed to lift the Israeli siege on the territory, release Sinwar's friends from prison, and make him a "leader of the Palestinian people".
But the calculations "didn't go as planned", the reaction of the Israelis was "uncontrolled, without any justification", and "now we have this result", he explained.
"He [Sinwar] didn't expect the operation to make things this complicated and to go as far as it did and become this dangerous. And [it] gave Israel all the reasons and excuses to break all the rules."
Speaking from Ramallah in the West Bank, Mansour said: "I think he was one of the main people behind this operation."
He claimed that if Sinwar knew what the consequences of the assault would be, he "would never have planned an operation this way".
Mansour, who has been in prison with Sinwar, said the Hamas leader had "wanted to make a change".
According to his ex-fellow inmate, Sinwar "tried several times to negotiate with the Palestinian Authority, to make a good relationship with Egypt, and he tried to provoke Israel to lift the siege on Gaza".
"After all these efforts, he didn't succeed. After that, he had to make a strategic change to [do] a huge operation like this. A big part of it was thought up by Sinwar."
Hamas killed 1,200 people, mostly civilians, in its raid on Israel last October and took around 250 others hostage.
The attack led to retaliatory Israeli strikes on Gaza that have killed at least 28,576 Palestinians, including mostly women and children, according to the Hamas-run health ministry.
The Israeli military claims it has killed or captured 8,000-9,000 Hamas fighters since 7 October.

From Sky News

I think it is two different Hamas’ terrorists with their own opinions speaking months apart, not two different versions of events.

The Hamas terrorist, Hamad said they’d do Oct 7th again said that on 1 November 2023. On 1 November, things were not nearly as bad as they are now.

Sinwar said he didn’t expect the consequences to be so dangerous on 14 February 2024.

A lot has happened between 1 November and 14 February that would cause even the same person to change their assessment.

But Sinwar is a different person from Hamad, so their opinions are not going to be identical.

Hamad is also, critically, not in Gaza like Sinwar is. He is in Lebanon. He left Gaza well before Oct 7th. So it’s easy for him from his secure, safe armchair to view all the humans as pieces on a chess board and not give a shit about all death he has caused. To see the thousands of Israelis and Palestinians dying as some sort of acceptable blood sacrifice for his ‘cause.’

Why do you think the IDF could do this was far fewer civilian deaths?

This comes up again and again, everyone seems to think there’s some sort of magic bullet for the IDF to use that wouldn’t kill loads of civilians. The only way you could potentially lower civilian casualties would be troops on the ground, but given the way Hamas is embedded in the civilian population this a) wouldn’t guarantee significantly lower deaths and b) would significantly raise the IDF death rate.

If you’re storming a flat where Hamas members are hiding and you use some explosive to blow down the door, but the whole damn building has been undermined by Hamas tunnels, and the thing falls down, you’ve done what you would have achieved with a bomb from a plane, but you’ve also killed your troops.

I can’t honestly believe anyone with responsibility for their own troops lives would opt for massively increasing their death rate, when there is a good chance it won’t even reduce the civilian death rate. Why would you send your own soldiers to die if you don’t have to?

all this “ceasefire now” and “aid to Gaza” from the Israeli perspective is “give Hamas a chance to regroup” and “while they’re regrouping, give them more supplies and more cash.” The images of the tunnels they’ve built under Gaza have shocked me. When I heard about the tunnels I expected Vietcong style hand dug crawl spaces. Not tunnels big enough to drive a car in. There is apparently 300+ miles of tunnels. While the Gazans are starving and dying. Why aren’t people screaming for Hamas to relent and “return hostages now, give civilians shelter in the tunnels?”

it’s genuinely baffling.

No, this propaganda about "they didn't think they'd be this successful" has been flying around for months. It's only now that they're pretending to attribute those comments to Sinwar. But quite a few anti-Israel posters on here have been saying it for several months, that Hamas didn't mean to murder/rape/maim/kidnap as many as they did, that they weren't aware of Nova festival. That it was all just one, big happy accident for the terrorists and their supporters.

Hamas do propaganda very well, so they've made sure to cover as many bases as possible for as many people as possible to fall for. And it's working incredibly well. They often do this, eg say one thing in Arabic and a completely different thing in English. It's nothing new. They're very experienced in lying and getting people to believe them.

Why do you think the IDF could do this was far fewer civilian deaths?
Because every other army fighting terrorists has.

That doesn’t sound like good propaganda. The “just one big happy accident” bits. I can’t believe anyone would fall for that nonsense.

The OP’s link to these comments are not about Oct 7th, but about the aftermath and to me it is merely a statement of the obvious. It’s not even contentious to say you didn’t know how it would be 4 months later when in a war because hardly anything goes exactly to plan in a war. Not for anyone.

What has this to do with the original post?

We were discussing Sinwar/Hamas' comments and their credibility.

Peoples' 'humanity' or lack of it are not up for discussion neither is any alleged 'genocide'.

There are plenty of threads where you can voice your opinions but this isn't one of them, so just stop trying to derail.

Examples please.

Why do you think the IDF could do this was far fewer civilian deaths?

the question now is who doesn’t think that the IDF could do this with fewer civilian deaths? Only the Israeli authorities and their supporters really. The American defence secretary seems to think it is entirely possible. It’s hardly an outlandish view at this point.

Syria (96.5 deaths per day), Sudan (51.6), Iraq (50.8), Ukraine (43.9) Afghanistan (23.8) and Yemen (15.8)

Gaza is at 250 deaths per day. Civilian proportion of deaths is higher than the average in all world conflicts in second half of 20th century.

The American Defence Secretary isn't in Gaza so he's hardly in a position to comment is he?

Pretty sure they were responding to Hiddenmnetter post.

So with that logic only the IDF will be able to determine whether they are trying to limit civilian casualties? Bit convenient

None of the conflicts you mention involves a terrorist group that is 'dug in' among a civilian population in a small geographical area.

The only similar situation was the Vietnam War where the Vietcong engaged in 'tunnel warfare', but that was conducted over a wide area.

You need to compare like with like, and unfortunately Gaza is a unique situation.

"So with that logic only the IDF will be able to determine whether they are trying to limit civilian casualties?"

Seeing as they are the only military there, then yes.

"Bit convenient"

I'm not sure what that means but if you want to debate with me please don't get sarcastic.

It's convenient that in your opinion the only people that can investigate whether they are trying to limit civilian casualties is the IDF so they'll be investigating themselves? I'm afraid it won't work like that, bit of a conflict of interest.

@Dulra "I'm afraid it won't work like that, bit of a conflict of interest."

Please stop stating your opinion as if it was fact. Unless you have in-depth knowledge of the process I think you need to stop speculating about what might or might not happen.

The only alternative is to have some kind of an observer group there, which raises a load load of logistical problems not least, risk to life.

As it is, Israel has already de-classified many military documents to submit to the ICJ and can, no doubt, provide more.

The only alternative is to have some kind of an observer group there, which raises a load load of logistical problems not least, risk to life.
can't see the IDF allowing this

As it is, Israel has already de-classified many military documents to submit to the ICJ and can, no doubt, provide more.
I'm sure they'll have to

Right I'll say no more. You seem very clued in on armed conflict and how war crimes and potential genocide are investigated so I'll bow out.

total BS
He knew what would happe

they said this many years ago when they killed a couple of IDF troops and kidnapped to and IDF bombed them hard

Lets give the half a brain moron the benefit of the doubt and he "dod not know" the response would be like that.

What is stopping the coward that is hiding in bunkers from surrendering and releasing all the hostages now?

@DistingusedSocialCommentator "What is stopping the coward that is hiding in bunkers from surrendering and releasing all the hostages now?"

Probably waiting on instructions from their masters in Qatar.

I suspect they need them for "leverage" but to what end I couldn't speculate.

I'll tell you why they/Hammas coeards are still holding on the the poor hostages - its to save th leaders skins in Gaza and those that are now hiding in the basements of 5 star hotels

Several times over the last ten years or so, Hamas and Hezbolz having attacked the people of Israel so make ceasefire agreements when their top leaders/cowards are take out by IDF ad or Mossad.

@DistingusedSocialCommentator
What happened IMO is not exactly what Hamas expected, but what Iran expected.
They (Hamas + Iran) expected Israel to do just what it actually did…

But they (Hamas) also expected Hezbollah to come to their aid by attacking from the north.

They (Hamas) did not expect Iran to throw them under the bus, and to have to bear the full burden of Israel’s wrath.

They did not expect Israel to recruit 320,000 reservists within a couple of days and get to the point of circulating these and other reservists so the economy does not grind to a standstill, while still maintaining an offensive initiative in Gaza while placing a huge force to make Hezbollah (and Iran) crap themselves

They (Iran) did not anticipate Biden’s “Don’t” speech * with such a quick deployment of two aircraft carriers aimed at nothing but physically exterminating the Iranian garrison in Syria.

*And we stand ready to move in additional assets as needed. Let me say again — to any country, any organization, anyone thinking of taking advantage of this situation, I have one word: Don't. Don't. Our hearts may be broken, but our resolve is clear.

Thank you

IMO, Hezbohla have already tasted IDF treatment when they blew up a tank I think and too a couple of IDF soldiers hostage. IDG raised to the ground areas where they lived, especially top brass and they new 5 star living

In my judgement, Hamas is seen by Irans top brass as gun fodder and brainless moron that could not organise a piss-up in an off licence.

Incredibly, the oct 7th attacks were a massive success and an unexpected one.
The rape and lilling of babies, and beheading I guess as a surprise to the hamas/irna lot but but its built up of many crack-pots, some more cracked than others and possibly high on coke and we all know what happened oct 7th

All of the Hamas lot, inc Hezbhola leaders are in hiding and negating on a skin-saving exercise

Hamas/Irans top brass do not care one bit about the ordinary people in Gaza, its self-interest. Self-rule for Gaza, they had it when IDF left but as like any country, corruption, and nepotism always come out on top and everyone else last.

Egypt is aware how mad the crackpots in Hamas are and this is why they won't let the people in

The Israreli PM and the West Bank settlers have their own agendas and always add fuel to the flames

As always, the innocent majority lose out because of politics where a few want everthitng ther own way along with status and fuck the rest

A brilliant summation !

WTF am I minimising? Can barely make any sense out your hysterical post. Are you not able to have a discussion without telling folk to fuck off?