Terrorist leader speaks out

[Peggysoonerthanlater]

Now you have it for the horse's mouth -

Yahya Sinwar: Hamas leader in Gaza didn't expect consequences of 7 October attack to be 'this dangerous', says friend

Updated Wed, 14 February 2024 at 10:02 pm GMT

The top Hamas leader in Gaza, Yahya Sinwar, was one of the main planners of the 7 October attack on Israel but did not expect the consequences to become "this dangerous", a friend has told Sky News.
Esmat Mansour (who has been in prison with Sinwar) said last year's cross-border raid was supposed to be a strategic operation designed to lift the Israeli siege on the territory, release Sinwar's friends from prison, and make him a "leader of the Palestinian people".
But the calculations "didn't go as planned", the reaction of the Israelis was "uncontrolled, without any justification", and "now we have this result", he explained.
"He [Sinwar] didn't expect the operation to make things this complicated and to go as far as it did and become this dangerous. And [it] gave Israel all the reasons and excuses to break all the rules."
Speaking from Ramallah in the West Bank, Mansour said: "I think he was one of the main people behind this operation."
He claimed that if Sinwar knew what the consequences of the assault would be, he "would never have planned an operation this way".
Mansour, who has been in prison with Sinwar, said the Hamas leader had "wanted to make a change".
According to his ex-fellow inmate, Sinwar "tried several times to negotiate with the Palestinian Authority, to make a good relationship with Egypt, and he tried to provoke Israel to lift the siege on Gaza".
"After all these efforts, he didn't succeed. After that, he had to make a strategic change to [do] a huge operation like this. A big part of it was thought up by Sinwar."
Hamas killed 1,200 people, mostly civilians, in its raid on Israel last October and took around 250 others hostage.
The attack led to retaliatory Israeli strikes on Gaza that have killed at least 28,576 Palestinians, including mostly women and children, according to the Hamas-run health ministry.
The Israeli military claims it has killed or captured 8,000-9,000 Hamas fighters since 7 October.

From Sky News

My pleasure....😄

@MercanDede and what country has ever fought a war within those confines - what atrocities have we ourselves committed? I don't think there are any winners in this situation but I also can't look at it in the black and white way you seem to be. If Hamas thought they had made a mistake and wanted to end the conflict for the good of their own people why not hand the hostages back - lay down arms and stop sending rockets back? If it was one of my own relatives who had been slaughtered I'd want to reign hell fire down on the perpetrators - and then again we are back to the eye for an eye mentality. I just think it's a big rich to say Israel should be playing nicely and following the rule of law when they are already in a dirty fight. And again I don't see any calls for action against others who are involved in dirty tricks when it comes to war (Saudis etc...) a special ire is put aside for Israel and I can't think why 🤨

I agree with you. I actually thought this as soon as 07/10 happened. Do I agree with Hamas' actions? Absolutely not. Do I agree with the Israeli government's response to it? Again, absolutely not.

The irony!!!!!!

a special ire is put aside for Israel and I can't think why
because they are being investigated for genocide, because they are currently killing and displacing thousands upon thousands of civilians, because an end to this needs to be immediate and rapid to save innocent lives. To suggest that it is only because it is Israel doing this as the reason for people being angry and upset and objecting to this is a good way of deflecting from the atrocities we are witnessing day in and day out and trying to shut us up.

If you think this report it to mumsnet and they will delete it if they agree.
Please address this. Thanks - who is this directed to?

@Dulra who is trying to shut anyone up? But you do realise there are other countries doing similar if not worse yet there are not millions of threads on that? I’ve no skin in this game - I’m appalled at it all but I’m equally appalled at the double standards this conflict has exposed and as to why it is a potential election issue in a country which stands firm with our allies.

Learning to live peacefully with your neighbours is so important. No one has total possession of anything. You come with nothing and you die with nothing.

We'll have to disagree on the double standard. There is no current situation similar at the moment. As I said Palestinian lives are at risk now, action has to be taken now so there is urgency to come to some kind of ceasefire. I also find it very patronising to query why people are posting on this and not starting threads about every other human rights violation also occurring. I am not sure what this whataboutery adds to this debate? The only reason I can see for it is to deflect and try to minimise what the IDF are doing

@Dulra i suggest you educate yourself about the Saudi Yemen conflict and the displaced people/murdered children. It’s not what aboutery it’s a genuine question. I’m not seeking to minimise what the IDF are doing and I’ve said upthread I think they are shouting themselves in the foot to some extent.

There's dozens of other threads on which you can discuss what you think of Israel's actions. This one was set up by the OP to discuss Sinwar and his comments. People constantly try to turn each thread into the same thing, even the one about Israeli hostages in Gaza.

If we tried to do this in those other threads we'd be told not to derail!

BTW perhaps you'd like to start a thread about how you DO defeat monsters if you have all the answers?

"Hamas are an illegal terrorist organisation"

Not according to the UN they're not 🙃 They consider them a perfectly legitimate organisation

Humdingery they don't even hide it do they?

Will RTFT after work, just on lunch now.
I have no sympathy for Hamas. I know they deliberately enjoyed murdering civilians, including women and children, on October 7th and in the later Jerusalem bus stop attack.

I don’t think Sinwar knew the full extent of what Israel’s response would be to the massacres on October 7th. I don’t think everyone expected the retaliation to last more than a few weeks. I don’t think everyone expected 28,000 civilian casualties by Valentines Day 2024, with over half of them women and children. I don’t think everyone expected the worst humanitarian crisis reported by veteran aid workers as the worst in their careers and currently in the world right now. I think most of us expected IDF to be both more effective and cause fewer civilian deaths in their campaign against Hamas. I certainly did not expect things to get so bad that they would be taken to court accused of genocide! Thinking that was viewed as paranoid antisemitism to most of us at the start of the war.

I think Sinwar admitting some of the consequences were unintended, doesn’t mean that he is not responsible for those unintended consequences.
If I’m cutting down a tree and it falls on me, I’m still responsible even though I didn’t know the tree would fall on me, and certainly didn’t intend for that to happen.

There's dozens of other threads on which you can discuss what you think of Israel's actions I was responding to your query as to why the thread has moved on to talk about "Israel being evil" I had no intention of derailing the thread
BTW perhaps you'd like to start a thread about how you DO defeat monsters if you have all the answers?
No I wouldn't like to start a thread on it I'm not qualified in armed conflict and never suggested I had all the answers. I do believe countries such as the US have offered their expertise to the IDF on how to target terrorists in such built up areas but it was declined

I don’t think Sinwar knew the full extent of what Israel’s response would be to the massacres on October 7th.

Sorry, not buying this. He, and they, didn’t just know, they planned it out to the letter and the day!

Carry out the most depraved attack imaginable to poke the bear and elicit a response on an unprecedented scale. As expected, Netanyahu dives headfirst into the trap. Meanwhile the world turns against Israel and Jews, and as Israel’s response worsens beyond belief, Hamas strengthens its support from Gazans (and also from the WB). In turn, the massacre on 7/10 gets buried under growing hatred globally towards Israel, and attitudes towards Hamas "the resistance" soften, which has become very evident. And to reinforce this new-found sympathy, release a woe is me statement that ‘oops we didn’t know Israel would do this actually, soz’. With a side order of negotiation proposals that include some completely unrealistic stipulations to make it look like Israel's the only one not wanting a peaceful solution. And Sinwar? Well he becomes a hero. Job done.

And now tens of thousands of innocent people have lost their lives as collateral and a territory utterly devastated beyond any kind of recognition.

You don't rape, torture and mutilate women, take hostages and murder youngsters at a dance festival in the belief there's going to be a lightweight response that lasts no "more than a few weeks". Hamas calculated this.

I was responding to your query as to why the thread has moved on to talk about "Israel being evil" I had no intention of derailing the thread

OK fair enough but it's not just you is it? And every single thread people do it.

I'm still curious how people marry this version of events with Hamas stating multiple times that October 7th was just a rehearsal and that they'll do it again and again and again. I know I already mentioned this once on this thread but it clearly could do with being repeated.

Please don't fall for any of this terrorist propaganda.

People who support Israel in UK are quiet and unassuming, they fear the backlash and the threats from the people stomping up and down their streets screaming about what should happen to Jews (not Israelis) Jews. Reminds me of how no one dared speak out if they had GC views recently or views about grooming gangs for fear of being labelled racist. All a bit sad really, thought it was sorted in 1945.

I don’t think Sinwar knew the full extent of what Israel’s response would be to the massacres on October 7th.

“Sorry, not buying this. He, and they, didn’t just know, they planned it out to the letter and the day!”

”As expected, Netanyahu dives headfirst into the trap.”

@etmoiandme you have too high an opinion of Hamas’ and too low of an opinion of Israel. Hamas are not evil geniuses and Nethanyu is not their predictably stupid sock puppet despite your creative fiction to that effect.

”….a lightweight response that lasts no "more than a few weeks”

If a few weeks is a lightweight response then what was October 7th by your perverse logic as it was one day of terror attacks? Feather weight?! I see what you are doing, and you can FO with that minimising shit.

It is all horrific and devastating: the one day of October 7th and the months of destruction in Gaza. I don’t think it’s awful to have expected a high tech, highly trained military to have been more efficient and effective in eliminating Hamas, with fewer civilian deaths.

I agree, a ferocious counter attack was inevitable. There is a long history of disproportionate responses by israel and a general disregard for Palestinian life and of course this time would be no different.

I don’t think that anyone could have predicted that the conflict would go on so long though. I’m more surprised that the Israel authorities don’t seem to be backing down in the face of the mounting criticism, particularly from their allies, than I am by their reaction in the first place.