This is the reality of what Israeli is doing.

[Eyesopenwideawake]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/10/im-so-scared-please-come-hind-rajab-six-found-dead-in-gaza-12-days-after-cry-for-help

Look up how many thousands of Palestinians killed by Israelis BEFORE Oct 7th. How much land Israel had violently and illegally stolen and was continuing to steal.

That’s before the post-Oct 7th bloodbath of thousands and thousands of innocent children and the destruction of everything in Gaza including hospitals, universities, schools and mosques that were hundreds of years old. And the ongoing killings and violent theft of land in the West Bank.

How can you genuinely think Israel isn’t the aggressor here? Is the news that heavily censored in Israel?

I need to be clear I'm not accusing you, I find your posts to be very measured. I'm accusing every Dann, who doesn't see or refuses to believe the Palestinians have suffered, and talks as if they owe Israel. I found his "I thought Hamas might have matured" to be particularly sickening, how many Gazan children have died as a result of Israel? Danns Hamas-ify all Palestinians, casting their own deaths at their door, blaming them 'because if they only grew up and stopped being terrorists' without ever considering the oppression that Israel has caused. I get as Israeli citizens it must be very uncomfortable to do so, but if there is ever to be peace then it needs to be done.

Many Gazans are highly educated. Palestinians in general greatly value education and learning. These aren’t the people Israel wants though. They want the cheap labour they can get to do manual, unskilled work. Often at a fraction of the cost and without basic rights like health insurance. That’s who they grant work permits to.

@EllaDisenchanted if you are genuinely interested in listening or understanding other perspectives I am sharing this article.

https://carnegie-mec.org/diwan/91021

While I agree it's important to challenge the stereotyping of Palestinians and to highlight the pre-7/10 oppression, I think we should try to have some compassion for Dann. I don't know who he was or what his views were pre-7/10 but I do know the pain of losing loved ones in horrible circumstances, and I know that in the days immediately following that, I would not have been able to articulate a nuanced, balanced view of the wider political and social backdrop to those losses. I don't think it's fair of the world to put Dann in that situation and then expect him to be able to do that either.

Interesting article @Desertrose2023 It does seem as if only low paid, unsafe and menial work was on offer to Gazans in Israel. Those kinds of jobs are subsistence, usually, offering no hope of progression. Probably many Gazans are overqualified for those jobs also.

Do you take the time to extend that level of sympathy towards the Palestinians, who have lost many more friends/family than Dann? Ella said she didn't blame Dann for what he said because 'what do you expect'. In that case the current generation of Gazans can say whatever they want until they die, Dann is in a very privileged position in comparison (as tragic as that is). Palestinian blood is equal to Israeli blood.

@madderthanahatter I'm guessing you haven't seen my previous posts on this board then.

As someone who has lost many friends and colleagues in this campaign of death, someone who has seen the destruction of a society and infrastructure they worked towards, someone who has had people I care about die due to the actions of the IDF and decisions of the Israeli government since 2003, and who might well have been one of the medics in that death zone if the timing had been different, I can still spare some compassion for a man who has lost loved ones in that way. To do otherwise is to contribute to perpetuating hate. That's not what I or my friends ever stood for. I'm not going to disrespect their memories by letting hate win over compassion now.

What Dann and others in his situation probably need now is time and privacy. Not the world media asking him for soundbites.

@madderthanahatter

Dann is in a very privileged position in comparison

What an awful dehumanising, minimising thing to write. What hope is there really?

@Scirocco I know you don't need my thanks or praise and are not looking for it but I really admire your posts.

Thank you @stomachamelon , I appreciate it.

I agree, and find they are a great help in understanding a better way to think about this dreadful state of conflict.

@starfleet I agree.

@Scirocco I am very sorry for your loss 💔

Not sure if this has been posted before. just seen the WFP is ceasing deliveries to North Gaza, due to lack of civil order/ security arising from people’s desperate attempts to get food.

slowly dying of hunger, or watching it happen to your kids and loved ones, must be one of the worst possible ways to die. These people probably wish they died in their sleep via bombs. I can’t believe this is all happening while the world’s watches on. The US vetoes and this man made famine continues.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68349031

There is nothing dehumanising or minimising about what I said (and you strategically left off what I said in the parenthesis in the same sentence). Dann's situation is tragic. One death is too many. Why should it be demanded we afford Dann space/time/respect/understanding when the same is not given to Gazans? They are terrorists, but Dann is grieving? And yes I would say he is in a place of privilege in comparison to the population of Gaza right now. The vast majority of the world is.

@madderthanahatter it's not 'demanded' it's basic humanity.

Yes exactly, and it should be extended to everyone.

My mind can't comprehend the level of suffering. And these are innocent precious children. The IDF are terrorists.

The IDF are monsters.

@madderthanahatter I am glad you understand what I mean.

x.com/nournaim88/status/1760076371345211529?s=46

"Another horrific massacre targeting families in Rafah just occurred...

How much longer must we endure this slaughter while the world turns a blind eye?

We are exhausted... exhausted... exhausted"

Distressing footage. More dead children.

So the IDF’s top lawyer admitted today that there had been “unacceptable conduct “ by IDF. She said this included “inappropriate statements that encourage unacceptable phenomena; unjustified use of force, including against detainees; looting, which include the use or removal of private property for non-operational purposes; and destruction of civilian property contrary to protocols.” She went on “Some incidents go beyond the disciplinary domain, and cross the criminal threshold,”

It seems that Istael is worried that this behaviour will damage its reputation. The very pro- Israeli New York Times analysed and verified some of the video material so it’s hard for the IDF to deny.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idfs-top-lawyer-warns-against-unacceptable-cases-of-conduct-by-troops-in-gaza/

@Kindatired "It seems that Istael is worried that this behaviour will damage its reputation."

I think that ship sailed a long time ago.

Thank you.

In the article it also says:

“These acts and statements, on the part of individuals who do not represent the collective, are contrary to the IDF as a professional, moral, and dignified army, and they have no place in the IDF,” Tomer-Yerushalmi said.
She said the acts also “cause the State of Israel and the IDF strategic damage in the international arena, the seriousness of which is difficult to overstate.”

She is right imo. I am glad she said this so clearly.

I agree. I wish that she had said more clearly though that doing these things are wrong. Like just wrong because they’re wrong. Not they’re wrong because IDF doesn’t want its reputation damaged internationally, or because they’re breaking their own rules.

I know. All it is really is a statement that some soldiers behaved badly. Meaning that the rest of them - and the Israeli government - are all still very moral.

I might be willing to accept that as plausible if so many civilians hadn’t been killed.