This is the reality of what Israeli is doing.

[Eyesopenwideawake]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/10/im-so-scared-please-come-hind-rajab-six-found-dead-in-gaza-12-days-after-cry-for-help

x.com/stairwayto3dom/status/1759561592570593519?s=46

Warning very graphic video. Children lying on a hospital floor with horrific injuries. Bones sticking through arms and legs. This is the reality of what Israel is doing and there is zero justification for it. Justice can't come quick enough.

I had to look away. It's an unbearable amount of suffering.

Did one of the little boys have his name written in marker on his stomach or did it say something else?

I've worked in environments where I've seen equally horrific traumatic injuries but the difference was we had all the medication, equipment and supplies to keep patients comfortable whilst we treated them.

I don't know how the staff at these hospitals are holding it together and doing what needs to be done with the little that they have.

@FOJN It's horrific isn't it? I read this article earlier. Doctors saying they're having to leave patients to scream for hours and hours.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68331988

I couldn't bring myself to watch the video, I'm sorry. But today alone I've seen so many pictures and video of children with horrendous injuries, including severe burns and they're lying in dirty hospital rooms with no proper healthcare. It's obscene. One of the pictures was in northern Gaza and it said that the children were starving, as well as being burned beyond recognition in some cases.

My mind can't comprehend the level of suffering. And these are innocent precious children. The IDF are terrorists.

The Israeli defence force is under orders from its government, Like any army. There is conscription too.

I'm so shocked however that the Israeli government has been allowed to continue.

Yes, not even asked to step down as far as we know.

But instead repeatedly voted in and funded.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68318856

This is an interesting article, I wasn't sure where to post it, but if it's accurate then it raises quite a few questions...

Posted too soon.

I suppose I'm wondering, having read that, what justification the government has for having known about those routes of finance for Hamas and having apparently done nothing about it. Udi Levy seems to be of the opinion that this was a missed opportunity to damage Hamas, which could have drastically changed the recent atrocities.

He actively encouraged their funding. He allowed suitcases of Qatari cash to be taken into Gaza. He claims this was to avoid a humanitarian crisis whilst at the same time the Israeli government was refusing to allow chocolate and pasta (too calorific) into Gaza.

Why suitcases full of cash? If you're concerned about starvation and diseases surely you send food and medical supplies?

He is clearly on record stating that funding of Hamas was necessary to drive a wedge between the PA and Hamas and destroy the possibility of a unified Palestinian administration negotiating for their own state. The PA were refusing to hand over money to Hamas.

www.politico.eu/article/benjamin-netanyahu-hamas-qatar-money-war-israel-gaza-palestine/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-68345117

When a doctor with this level of experience in these situations describes a place as a death zone, please listen to him.

@FOJN

Why suitcases full of cash? If you're concerned about starvation and diseases surely you send food and medical supplies?

My understanding is that there was also an expectation that the senior hamas leaders in gaza would go off to lead quiet lives of luxury - with their race-horses, up market homes and shopping malls - and give up on their terroristic ambitions?

This proved to be doubly dangerous because they were indeed 'quiet' and assumed to be living comfortably and doing a bit of governing [for a change] when in reality they were out of earshot/out of the country planning 7/10

The local population were aware to some extent that hamas was manipulating the food/aid situation [from polling done before 7/10]

I should probably say that I'm in no way victim blaming - any criticism is directed at Netanyahu's mis-judgement in under-estimating the hamas leadership

A government that does not seem to recognise International Law.

Yes, I would agree. In the last couple of years, lots more work permits were given than ever before to Gaza before Oct 7. The aim was to improve the economic situation (in Gaza), to stabilise the area, and discourage terrorism. The relative quiet (there were still terror attacks and some rockets), was seen as a sign that the policy was working. Part of the reason Oct 7th was such a betrayal was a number of the workers used the permits to scope out the area and create extremely detailed plans of the kibbutzim around Gaza.

"The Defense Ministry has signed off on a tentative plan to raise the number of Gaza permits to 20,000, an unprecedented increase. In mid-2021, just 7,000 Gaza Palestinians had permits to work or trade in Israel.
Defense officials say allowing more Gazans to work in Israel will pump much-needed income into the impoverished coastal enclave while encouraging stability."
Times of Israel, 22nd September 2022

I find it hard to believe that Israel wanted to improve the economic situation of Gazans. Why not lift blockades then? Much more likely that Israel needed the labour and it was cheaper than bringing in Asians. That's a side point though.

Who broke whose trust? Why on earth would anyone expect the Gazans to trust Israel after what they have subjected them to historically? Israel have been the oppressor here, not the saviour. (And this point isn't related to 7/10 BTW).

Israelis think by giving Gazans work permits do to basic jobs in Israel, earning a minimum wage pittance so they and their families can survive despite Israel’s years long blockade and strangulation of Gaza, they are doing them a favour. It’s truly delusional.

The blockades are there because of the ongoing threat of terror from Hamas. In the period before oct 7th rocket and terror attacks were still ongoing, it was an active security threat.

Did you read the article? improving the economic stability in Gaza as a deterrent for terror was seen as one of the strategies for improving the overall situation.

they found detailed maps of the kibbutzim, made by workers who had come in on permits with in depth knowledge about the people who lived there. The kibbutznikim were liberals, people who were active in building peaceful relations with Gaza. Look up Vivian Silver and the work she was part of- women wage peace. She was murdered along with a number of other peace activists on October 7th. That’s the broken trust I’m referring to.

“Both Greineman and Dann spoke about the kibbutz families who had helped Palestinian workers from Gaza. Dann said he had a friend who had become close with one of the workers whose daughter was ill with a heart defect, and helped them get medication and medical care.
“We were glad that workers from Gaza were coming to Israel with work permits to have jobs to meet Israelis, to see that we’re not all ‘those devils,’” he said, gesturing with air quotes. “We all really believed that things are changing. That Hamas has maybe matured from being this terrorist group to being the grown up; taking responsibility for their people, worrying for their welfare. And that concept really blew up in our face.”
Members of one family who had hired a Palestinian employee were now in Gaza themselves as hostages, Dann said.
“I can’t tell you if one of those workers was a spy,” he said. “We can assume that probably yes because they had intelligence. They came here with maps. They knew exactly where everyone was.””(https://www.timesofisrael.com/1-month-after-oct-7-massacre-the-ruins-of-kibbutz-kfar-aza-testify-to-its-horrors/amp/)
I don’t have a link to hand, or time to look, but I’ve seen pictures of the maps found dropped in the kibbutzim in the aftermath of oct 7th.

What Hamas did on Oct 7th was appalling.

What Israel did before Oct 7th and continues to do to this day is equally appalling but on a far far greater scale.

Calorific rationing, prevention of medical treatment, destroying fishing nets, closing schools, confiscating stationery has got nothing to do with reducing terrorism. Israel can repeat this ad nauseum, but it doesn't mean people will believe it.

ETA: It's very interesting that Dann from the article did not once acknowledge the oppression that Gazans have suffered at the hands of Israel. He blames immature Hamas for Gazans thinking they are "all devil's". This is a massive part of the problem. It's the same on these threads, there's a complete unwillingness to acknowledge what Israel has done. Instead the focus is all on Palestinians as the evil born perpetrators who need to be grateful to Israel. It honestly beggars belief.

Add in blowing up their airport, blocking their sea port, throwing people out of their homes and violently settling on land that is not theirs. Absolutely disgusting.

You seem determined to think the worst of Israel and Israeli’s motives. I do not believe I am delusional. I personally think the permits were a pathway to slowly building up trust between Gaza and Israel, a way to gradually decrease the tension.

I think that has unfortunately gone now.

Why are you positioning Israel as the victim though? Have you considered the deaths and injuries inflicted on Palestinian children alone in the last twenty years? It is Israel who should be trying to win the trust of the Palestinians, not the other way around. Israel has huge reparations to make to Palestinians.

Were they only given basic jobs? I hear the Gazans have a lot of postgraduates and highly educated people - were they not allowed to do professional jobs?

Please point out where I have ever made comments that would suggest that I think Palestinians are evil born perpetrators? I find it very hard to engage in any of these threads when I’m met with accusations like this. I want to listen but this rhetoric is awful.

His exact quote was “We all really believed that things are changing. That Hamas has maybe matured from being this terrorist group to being the grown up; taking responsibility for their people, worrying for their welfare.”.

you’re right though, in an interview where he is literally walking through the burnt remains of the homes of his close family and friends, 4 short weeks after the trauma of surviving October 7th while hiding for hours with his family in their safe room, reading the last desperate messages of his friends and neighbours, while the bodies of those same friends and neighbours are still being identified, other friends are being held hostage, he doesn’t acknowledge Gazans suffering. How could that be expected of him at that moment?

I also don’t see any statements about wanting revenge. Just horror at the situation.