Standing up for Israel

[Fizzadora]

So, they have got to MN now too.
I just managed to read the previous post before it got deleted for being inflammatory. Not to me it wasn't but then I don't support terrorists.
Many, many people do stand for Israel and not for Hamas (and by definition their supporters; you know who you are).

First of all, I can't see that poster having said the term Arab is offensive. Secondly, half my family are Arabs. Thirdly, what else would you like me to call people who speak Arabic? I'm happy to use a different word if you'd prefer.

@Humdingerydoo I haven't seen the posters post as it's been deleted.

I meant that I can't see where Scirocco said anything about 'Arab' being an offensive term. Again, I'm happy to be educated and use a different preferred term. I was referring to people who speak Arabic. I genuinely don't know what else to call them. Would Arabic-speakers have been better? Although that's not the term the poster I was replying to used - they used Arab.

The word "Arab" is a generic term; it does not distinguish between the different nationalities ( Egyptians/Jordanians/ Lebanese/Palestinians and so on).
It is offensive for some because it is, in effect, not recognising their individual identity. It is "lumping" them together.

Yes but that's exactly what I meant - Arab-speakers from various nations. I have seen quotes from Egyptian, Palestinian, Lebanese, Iraqi, Jordan etc who have said "death to the Jews" in Arabic and then had it explained to me that they use the same word for Israeli as they do for Jew. So they're not calling for death to all Jews, they're calling for death to Israelis which apparently makes it not antisemitic. That was the whole point.

To be very, very clear - I don't for even a second think or mean that all or even the majority of Arabs have said that. I mean that there have been a small group of people from various Arab nations who have said it. That's why I used the term Arab, just like I would have said European if they had been French, Greek and Belgian.

Genuinely, is there a more appropriate term to use? My family refer to themselves as Arab so it didn't occur to me for even a second that it would be offensive. If it had, I wouldn't have said it.

@Humdingerydoo thanks for explaining, it's just that in the post I quoted it didn't come across that way, well to me anyway.

Genuinely, is there a more appropriate term to use? I am not an expert either but to avoid generalising people maybe use Egyptian, Palestinian, Lebanese, Iraqi, Jordan etc. No one likes being lumped together with other people distinctly different to them. I would personally find it unusual as an Irish person to be referred to as European when someone was talking about something a group of people from say France were saying.

I'm glad we sorted it out. And I'm glad you called out what you thought was me being offensive as if you thought so, others might have as well. It's given me an opportunity to either explain or educate myself.

From what I could tell the Bedouin also have a proud identity as such, and do not call themselves either Arab or Palestinian. Israeli society seems to refer to them 'the Arabs,' though, despite the fact I never heard a Bedouin person describe themselves as such. It seems complicated.

@stormy4319trevor out of interest where have you seen that? That is quite surprising to me, I have only ever heard them referred to as Bedouins here. (There were some living at one point on a hill/mountain nearby, although they appear to have moved on).

@EllaDisenchanted Maybe it's different now? This was in my backpacking days of the 90s, Moshav and Kibbutz. Bedouin workers called themselves Bedouin, but the Israeli workers called them the Arabs.

@stormy4319trevor could be. I looked it up and this came up on wikipedia "Today, many Bedouin call themselves 'Negev Arabs' rather than 'Bedouin', explaining that 'Bedouin' identity is intimately tied in with a pastoral nomadic way of life – a way of life they say is over. Although the Bedouin in Israel continue to be perceived as nomads, today all of them are fully sedentarized, and about half are urbanites.[19]" It definitely seems complicated!

@EllaDisenchanted Thank you for looking that up. The impression I had was that their identity was really important to them. They seemed to live in villages, but travel for seasonal work, so not really fully nomadic. I suppose they are a culture in transition.

@stormy4319trevor
@EllaDisenchanted

Sadly it seems that the Bedouin have become the forgotten victims of this conflict who suffered 19 victims of n the 7th October attack or that a number of the hostages held by Hamas are Bedouin children taken from a small Bedouin village in Israel near the border with Gaza.

www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231017-negev-bedouins-israel-s-forgotten-victims-of-the-hamas-attack-rally-to-provide-aid

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67573069.amp

The Bedouin have terrible suffered discrimination over the years from the Ottomans, British and Israelis but hopefully if there is any positive out of this horrible conflict that might just appear to be changing:

www.israelhayom.com/2024/02/14/bedouin-heroes-who-risked-lives-died-saving-others-on-oct-7-honored/

Finally given that there is evidence of Bedouins being in Israel from the 7th to 4th century BC then historically and based on the fact that they have always been there then they probably have a greater claim to these lands than either the Israelis or the Palestinians do.

@1dayatatime I have to go out soon, but will read those links later. They are a really interesting group of people.

@stormy4319trevor

It's really quite sad as they are a noble, peaceful and historic group that has been caught in the middle of this conflict and who probably have a greater claim to the land than either the Palestinians or the Israelis.

@1dayatatime I remember them as friendly, cheerful, hard working but poor, resilient, optimistic about their future and generally making the best of things. I definitely heard of a couple of cases of displacement to make room for settlers recently, which made me sad. I had no idea how long they had been in the area, but they struck me as people who would have been happy to share the land with anyone back then.

Thanks 🙏 I did hear about the Bedouin victims and hostages, and many of the heroic acts of the Bedouin community on October 7th were shared on the social media sites I follow (mainly Jewish sources). I have huge respect and gratitude to them for their sacrifice and bravery.

I particularly remember aisha and her brother, as they were among the last to be released in the last set of negotiations. Their father and brother remain hostage in Gaza 💔

I’m very glad to hear steps are being taken to deal with the unique challenges the Bedouins have faced following October 7th and they should rightfully be honoured in Israel.

https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-785519

So many Jews feel they just can't stand with Israel at the moment

https://www.facebook.com/reel/694005239544041

@fleurneige listening to that I think that statement is a bit misleading....that's one person on a phone in.

They said
They still believe in Israel's right to defend itself.
In Israel's right to exist.

They just thought things could have been done differently.

Which tbh I think is a sentiment most people share.

You mean one Jewish person disagrees with the actions of the current Israeli government but supports it's right to exist, according to a clip from a random facebook page spamming posts about how Israel is exactly the same as 1940s Germany and shouldn't exist.

Yes, just one person who represents 1000s and 1000s more. I of course only posted one as a representation.

By that maths, each person who stands by Israel also represents 1000s & 1000s more.

Is this based on anything or did you just make it up?

It’s a shame the Palestinians aren’t as free to voice their disapproval of Hamas.