Standing up for Israel

[Fizzadora]

So, they have got to MN now too.
I just managed to read the previous post before it got deleted for being inflammatory. Not to me it wasn't but then I don't support terrorists.
Many, many people do stand for Israel and not for Hamas (and by definition their supporters; you know who you are).

Baptised catholic but no longer practicing/ believing. It is extremely difficult to officially leave the Catholic faith so many people (in Ireland anyway) often refer to themselves as lapsed catholic as they no longer practice the faith but are still "counted" as catholic by the church

@Dulra Thats interesting, thanks for the explanation.

I support Israel as does the UK and US and many other countries. I think Mumsnet has done a good job of allowing free debate and I know individual posters have very strong views some on one side and some on the other.

im the same and consider myself atheist nowadays. In Spain you’ve to go through a load of loopholes to be removed as catholic the church keeps counting me as if I was practising even if I’ve not believed for 25 years in it

I’m a practicing Catholic… my faith ebbs and flows but I’m still practicing…
I am always interested in hearing about other faiths. It’s been good to read the exchanges on here which show that most of us just want to understand each other.. and be understood.

I'm too scared not to believe in God 😂the nuns did a good job on us

On this topic, can someone educate me on what the term Arab means? If I'm understanding correctly Muslim is someone who follows the religion of Islam. What does Arab mean and when would one use it?

Arab is an ethnic group, with heritage going back to Western Asia or North Africa. There's a large diaspora. It's not a religious term, it's an ethnicity term. However, as a lot of people who belong to that ethnic group are Muslim, some people assume all Arabs are Muslim and all Muslims are Arabs, neither of which is true.

A Muslim is someone who believes in Islam - they believe in God and accept the teachings of the Prophets and Messengers (peace be upon them) including Abraham, Jesus and Muhammad.

The Majority of the Muslims in the world are actually non Arab. The country with the largest population of Muslims is Indonesia if I recall correctly

Thank you @Parkingt111 @Scirocco

@niceandnew you are welcome 😊

You mean the UK government?

Is that a bit like how Arabs call Israelis Jews? Which is a funny one because on the one hand, I frequently see it used as an excuse for "no no, they're not actually calling for the death of Jews! It's just what they call Israelis" but then on the other hand, you've just implied that actually, that's a pretty horrible thing to do as it's trying to strip Israelis of any link to the state of Israel.

Wow. Tell us your prejudices why don't you?

why they shouldn't be forced out to make room for settlers fleeing the horrors of Stamford Hill.

FFS. That is blatant antisemitism.

@LaDernièreChanson No, it's Israeli immigration law, which permits any Jewish person an unrestricted right of immigration into Israel - this has been in place since the 1950s (i e. shortly after Palestinians, many of whose families has lived in the area for hundreds of years, were expelled in the Nakba). The effect of this is that individuals whose families may have lived in the UK or elsewhere for countless generations are able to immigrate to Israel, while the Palestinians expelled in the Nakba, whose connection with the land was arguably much more immediate, have not been permitted to return by the Israeli government, which does not recognise their right of return. Referring to them as Arabs is just one of the ways that the Israeli right wing seeks to minimise their identity and rights.

@BoxOfPaints Yes, I'm Jewish and well aware of that law so don't need your schooling thanks very much. And my comment still stands about this specific comment you made: "to make room for settlers fleeing the horrors of Stamford Hill".

@LaDernièreChanson UK citizens who happen to be Jewish, who live in a comfortable London suburb and have no objective need of refuge, have a right denied to Palestinians who were expelled from their homes - perhaps the sarcasm escaped you.

@BoxOfPaints Like I said, my comment still stands.

(Asides from your post stinking strongly antisemitic) it is also factually incorrect.

As per my research the majority of current Palestinian Muslims are geographically Arabs rooted from the Arabian Peninsula.

Before 1964 "Palestinian Arabs" was the term used for the Muslims residing in Palestine and "Palestinian Jew" was the term for the Jews who resided there too. Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs both occupied the region during the British Mandate and they were referred to as such, which is why many Israeli's will call an Israeli/Palestinian Arab as an "Arab".

Above, I was asking the Muslim MNers if the term "Arab" is seen as derogatory, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm understanding that it is not a racist term although it is often used geographically incorrectly.

On the other hand implying that all Stamford Hill Jews are soon to be Israeli settlers is highly antisemitic, and I take offense.

niceandnew-Not true. Palestinians are Levantine Arabs, they are native to the region and are descended from the Canaanites. Genetic studies have shown this back at around 2000.

www.juancole.com/2023/05/palestinians-indigenous-palestinian.html

@BoxOfPaints definitely not countless generations in the UK, we were only allowed back after the expulsion from Britain in Cromwells time, so roughly 350 years. Probably not countless generations in many Christian countries either because there is a long bloody history of pogroms and expulsions so there was always some shifting and movement.

As an aside, Stamford hill Jews are exceptionally unlikely to become settlers, they are ideologically very different.

no objective need for refuge in your opinion. When you’ve been the recipient of anti semitism, and see the way it is bubbling up again worldwide, the writing is on the wall.

Apparently we're all only allowed to be in 'ancestral homelands' whatever that means.

Do we work that out as highest percentage of DNA wins or relocate ourselves in bits? Or is it the most ancient fragment of DNA that counts?

Utter, inflammatory, racist, divisive bollocks.

*@Humdingerydoo

Is that a bit like how Arabs call Israelis Jews?*

I thought we all discussed this yesterday and @Scirocco explained how using the word 'Arab' is offensive?