Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Conflict in the Middle East

"The only purpose of these endless marches is to intimidate British Jews" (part two) ***MNHQ has tweaked the title in order to make the quote more clear***

1000 replies

stomachameleon · 13/01/2024 21:43

Only the few apparently........these pictures are from todays March. Footage to follow..

"The only purpose of these endless marches is to intimidate British Jews" (part two) ***MNHQ has tweaked the title in order to make the quote more clear***
"The only purpose of these endless marches is to intimidate British Jews" (part two) ***MNHQ has tweaked the title in order to make the quote more clear***
"The only purpose of these endless marches is to intimidate British Jews" (part two) ***MNHQ has tweaked the title in order to make the quote more clear***
OP posts:
Thread gallery
58
Offwiththecircus · 21/02/2024 16:48

stomachamelon · 20/02/2024 11:27

To answer your question you only need to search online and it will tell you where the synagogue is and why the March was delayed. No synagogues or religious events then no need to delay? Unless you are insinuating it was made up to disrupt the March?

So I will leave you to draw your own conclusions.

You seem unable/ unwilling to appreciate other peoples lived experience or acknowledge the placards we have evidence of (even though you insinuate you single handily vetted everyone) so I don't know what else there is to say really?
You are just derailing or attempting to badly.....

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/palestine-solidarity-campaign-israeli-london-metropolitan-police-people-b2497792.html

>>>You seem unable/ unwilling to appreciate other peoples lived experience or acknowledge the placards we have evidence of (even though you insinuate you single handily vetted everyone) so I don't know what else there is to say really?
You are just derailing or attempting to badly.

Am not derailing at all - though I realise that in some online communities (the reason I am not on broader social media) "derailling" actually means disagreeing. Yep I disagree with the title of this thread and the posts of many supporting it. It seems to have sadly become an echo chamber for many so will soon leave it, while the debate and world moves on. It already has of course.
Of course I neither said nor insinuated that I single handedly vetted everyone. I said what I saw.
Thanks for the press link - confirmed what I saw and what the beeb reported. That there was no ignoring of police requests/instructions to delay the start. Despite some including you saying that there was. And despite several making the charge and then ignoring my reasonable questions about the charge.

The press article you linked also makes it pretty clear where that "charge" came from - The Campaign Against Antisemitism.

A recent comms from them said:

"""

We are continuing to monitor the weekly anti-Israel protests. This week, we publicised concerns from local Jewish community leaders in central London about the route and persistence of these marches. The Met Police tried to ensure that the marches would start at 13:30 on Saturday after synagogue services had finished, but the protesters gathered at midday anyway. The police bolstered security outside synagogues in the area and we have heard from parents who were afraid to walk home with their children.

Not only are the organisers of these marches refusing to respect local communities and the police, but neither are the protesters.

"""

A complete and utter distortion - which they have managed to spread around.

"but the protesters gathered at midday anyway" - yes but as the police made clear this was the gathering time - which had been publicised some time before and could hardly be changed with folks coming from around the country.

The organisers ignored no police requests.

And of course there was no trouble with this synagogue.

As I said I am still learning and didn't even know of their existence until last year. It is now clear to me that their agenda is simply to stop the marches. Full stop. Despite their worthy sounding name.

I also remember last year telling a Jewish friend (jewish according to both Judaic law and Nazi law) that as part of their campaigning they had declared that central London was a no-go zone for Jewish folk. He scoffed (not at me I stress) and said "they just want to stop the marches".

I would encourage folks to sign up to their mailings. Educational.

Oh, and as I have said anti semitism stinks.

Addendum - using charges of anti semitism for other purposes also stinks. For apart from anything else it of course undermines the countering of anti semitism.

Which does undoubtedly exist.

quantumbutterfly · 21/02/2024 16:51

PeasfullPerson · 21/02/2024 16:35

Conor Gearty KC, a barrister in Matrix Chambers and Professor of Human Rights Law at the LSE, drawing on the work of the late Stan Cohen, an LSE professor of sociology, explains how Israel has used denial in three ways to control the narrative on its assault against Gaza since 7 October 2023: “literal denial (it never happened); interpretative denial (it’s not what you think it is) and implicatory denial (we have to do it/it’s terrible, but it’s not our fault).” The analysis is clear and persuasive, but perhaps the most disturbing feature of Professor Gearty’s work are the illustrations he uses, showing just how predisposed Europeans and American are to be gulled by Israeli manipulation.

And Israel of course are the only people doing this.......Hmm

Offwiththecircus · 21/02/2024 16:56

quantumbutterfly · 21/02/2024 16:51

And Israel of course are the only people doing this.......Hmm

Quite possibly for there is lots of bad stuff about in the world.
Israel is as capable of bad stuff as any other country.
And ditto reverse.
And can be criticised for.
No person or country is above criticism or can claim claim a free pass.
Thanks for confirming.

Speak truth to power folks, whatever flag it wraps itself in.

PeasfullPerson · 21/02/2024 16:56

stomachamelon · 21/02/2024 16:46

He also wrote this about Hamas

www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/world/63545/hamas-terrorists-israel-palestine-gaza

He is not as one dimensional as you think.

I don’t see how that is at all relevant to the marches. Unlike the article I shared, again posted below.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v46/n02/conor-gearty/short-cuts

Conor Gearty · Short Cuts: Versions of Denial

Denial in Israel is a means of keeping supporters abroad on message. We in the Global North need lies so that we can...

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v46/n02/conor-gearty/short-cuts

Dulra · 21/02/2024 16:57

ThaiFishcake · 21/02/2024 16:26

The more I read on here, witness first hand and see ion the news, the more I'm convinced these marches should be banned. How have we made it acceptable for people to behave like this in public? Yes we're a democracy and have the privileged right to protest but NOT at the expense of others. I worry that this rhetoric is being pushed into the minds of the most vulnerable who haven't developed the skill of critical thinking yet. Where will this lead?

Banning something never works. You ban it what then? People still gather but it's not controlled, there's no security or police presence, no licence to march dedicated routes, no accountability etc just a free for all, rentamob turns up to cause all sorts of trouble and chaos insues.
I absolutely understand the concerns people from the Jewish community have but banning people from marching will make the situation worse.

noblegiraffe · 21/02/2024 16:58

So we’re now onto complaints about antisemitism at the marches is an Israeli plot to stop the marches.

Offwiththecircus · 21/02/2024 17:01

ThaiFishcake · 21/02/2024 16:26

The more I read on here, witness first hand and see ion the news, the more I'm convinced these marches should be banned. How have we made it acceptable for people to behave like this in public? Yes we're a democracy and have the privileged right to protest but NOT at the expense of others. I worry that this rhetoric is being pushed into the minds of the most vulnerable who haven't developed the skill of critical thinking yet. Where will this lead?

You are aware that we have laws outlawing the stirring up of racial hatred and disorder?

Honestly, the ever changing fluid reasons folk come up with for banning the marches/public protest never ceases to amaze me.
Transport
Remembrance sunday.
shopping

bkla bla bla

easter?
New moon?
Anniversary of whatever (a quick google will find many)

Offwiththecircus · 21/02/2024 17:03

noblegiraffe · 21/02/2024 16:58

So we’re now onto complaints about antisemitism at the marches is an Israeli plot to stop the marches.

anti semitism can be countered by law.
I suggest that as a citizen of a democracy you use it and report any instances.

Dulra · 21/02/2024 17:03

worry that this rhetoric is being pushed into the minds of the most vulnerable who haven't developed the skill of critical thinking yet
@ThaiFishcake not sure what vulnerable people you are referring to here but if it's young people don't worry, young people have always been idealistic, thinking they can change the world but like most of us they'll grow up, get a mortgage and become the people they currently hate.

PeasfullPerson · 21/02/2024 17:04

Interesting framing of the issue!

We are on to discussing how a legitimate issue is being exploited by some in a further attempt to control the narrative.

All that matters to some is control of the narrative.

There is no concern given to our right to free speech, and what it means to live on a democracy.

Vakarian · 21/02/2024 17:06

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster

Vakarian · 21/02/2024 17:07

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster

PeasfullPerson · 21/02/2024 17:08

We can’t have Israeli interference dictating our right to free speech.

Antisemitism must be dealt with.

The marches must be allowed.

Vakarian · 21/02/2024 17:09

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster

PeasfullPerson · 21/02/2024 17:13

I think you should stay @Offwiththecircus , if you can manage it.

I think that echo chambers are dangerous and it’s good to have people with differing views on each board.

Offwiththecircus · 21/02/2024 17:14

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster

suggest you identify PP and their statement for clarity then rather than just being snide.
I honestly find the propensity to swear from a certain camp rather notable.
(yes it is swearing in the context of what one would hope is a civilised discussion)

Vakarian · 21/02/2024 17:15

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster

Dulra · 21/02/2024 17:16

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster

The wave emoji is pretty childish

Vakarian · 21/02/2024 17:16

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster

Offwiththecircus · 21/02/2024 17:29

PeasfullPerson · 21/02/2024 17:13

I think you should stay @Offwiththecircus , if you can manage it.

I think that echo chambers are dangerous and it’s good to have people with differing views on each board.

You have maybe twigged that I pop on at certain times, so my posts tend to come in flurries. This may tend to make me look a bit manic :)
Thanks for your point but I don't think I will be around here much longer. It is generally an echo chamber (there are one or two other echo threads on the same subject) and legitimate questions I have asked about points made have gone unanswered.
I am just grateful that I can't be bullied/cancelled/ruined since this isn't a debate in a closed arena like an office or public life.
I take some comfort from the fact that echo chambers are self defeating - those within them massaging each other become detached from life and events as they move on.
And this issue and the public debate has moved on I think - I think it the end of Israel blunderbussing the use of charges of anti semitism to stifle legitimate debate.
Even Starmer may come to appreciate it.

For the avoidance of any doubt in case anyone tries to slander me (though they can't harm me) I do think that Israel has a right to exist. Any reasonable person I think understands why its creation was thought necessary.

Oh, by the by folks in London may be interested in this event.

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/hennessy-lecture-2024-sir-simon-schama-tickets-95231904189?aff=ebdssbdestsearch

They are being a bit cagey about the location at the moment - maybe for security reasons - I hope it goes ahead.

There is also this.
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/book-launch-the-radical-jewish-tradition-donny-gluckstein-and-janey-stone-tickets-808894674747

For we do thank god still live in some sort of democracy.

Hennessy Lecture 2024: Sir Simon Schama

Join the Mile End Institute for the first in our new series of distinguished Hennessy Lectures, celebrating Peter Hennessy's life and work.

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/hennessy-lecture-2024-sir-simon-schama-tickets-95231904189?aff=ebdssbdestsearch

Offwiththecircus · 21/02/2024 17:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

quantumbutterfly · 21/02/2024 17:33

PeasfullPerson · 21/02/2024 17:08

We can’t have Israeli interference dictating our right to free speech.

Antisemitism must be dealt with.

The marches must be allowed.

Free speech comes with responsibilities.
If you think Israel is controlling your free speech you're more than a little paranoid, or provocative.
There is a propaganda war of course from many sides, you'd be clueless not to be aware of it, is this thread about that to you?

Limeandsodaontherocks · 21/02/2024 17:53

PeasfullPerson · 21/02/2024 17:13

I think you should stay @Offwiththecircus , if you can manage it.

I think that echo chambers are dangerous and it’s good to have people with differing views on each board.

The irony 🙄

stomachamelon · 21/02/2024 18:00

@Limeandsodaontherocks I was just about to say that but you know...... echo chamber and all?

Februaryfeels · 21/02/2024 18:01

PeasfullPerson · 21/02/2024 17:13

I think you should stay @Offwiththecircus , if you can manage it.

I think that echo chambers are dangerous and it’s good to have people with differing views on each board.

There are different views on the board.

But threads are specific and it's quite sad that derailing continues

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread