"The only purpose of these endless marches is to intimidate British Jews" (part two) ***MNHQ has tweaked the title in order to make the quote more clear***

[stomachameleon]

Only the few apparently........these pictures are from todays March. Footage to follow..

apple.news/AyKKfSCXzSTyiVI3Win0JXw

'We want so many of you to come that they have to lock the doors of parliament itself'

Ben Jamal is a bully. Amongst other things.

They are terrorist sympathisers, intentionally or unintentionally. Why? Because:

1. These supposed Pro-Palestine marches always a call for “ceasefire” from Israel. Never a call for stopping suicide bombing, kidnapping and whatever else Hamas, or other similar terrorists do. Is Israel supposed ceasefire, lie down and take the attacks? From the day of its inception it has been attacked (google six days war). It’s had to build the Iron Dome to stop rocket attacks from a territory it was supposedly occupying at the time. It is disingenuous to say you’re marching for Palestine when you don’t ask Hamas to free the hostages and put their arms down, because extremist ideology is the single biggest reason for the war in Gaza. These are anti-Israel marches not pro-Palestine marches.
2. Three people at a pro-Palestinian march have already been charged with terror offences for supporting Hamas - https://news.sky.com/story/amp/three-guilty-of-terror-offence-for-displaying-images-of-paragliders-at-pro-palestine-protest-13070710
3. If I knew there were potential far right terrorists at a pro-Israel March I wouldn’t go. When you stand shoulder to shoulder with a potential terrorist or terrorist sympathiser you ARE giving them moral support.

I don't think it's realistic to think that an idea or belief system can be defeated by military force. People have tried, many times, to do so. I can't think of any examples where military force has successfully destroyed an idea. Even if, somehow, every currently living member of Hamas were killed, the ideas remain. Other people will connect with those ideas for their own reasons and the ideas continue. Whether they are called Hamas or not doesn't change that.

To truly diminish an ideology, we can't just kill people. There needs to be communication, societal change, an understanding and addressing of predisposing and precipitating factors.

What's happening just now in Israel and Gaza is something that I fear will lead to even more polarisation amongst our generation and younger generations. How do we explain to an Israeli child who is living through displacement from their home, or witnessed the events of 7/10, that their Palestinian neighbour is not their enemy? How do we explain to a Palestinian child whose family died in an air-strike, or who is starving in wasteland, that their Israeli neighbour is not their enemy? That's why we need to be looking to make the changes that can diminish the ideologies pushing hatred and division.

I think there were alternatives to the route chosen by the Israeli government, which could have been more effective in dismantling Hamas and rescuing the hostages. I do not believe that this level of devastation was the only option open to them. It was, however, the option they chose.

Now, the Israeli government finds itself losing international support, with escalating tensions all around, being investigated by the ICJ... And for what? Which of the initial objectives have been achieved through force? Hamas is still a regional power. Two hostages were rescued through a military operation but how many are still potentially in Gaza? And if the planned ground operation on Rafah goes ahead, there's a pretty high risk of those innocent people either dying in it or simply being taken out of Gaza altogether - while the people of Gaza are trapped there, it's worth remembering that Hamas likely still have control of tunnels which have exits outside of Gaza.

The only times when there have been significant results in terms of hostage release and aid have been when people have negotiated.

So yes, I think the Israeli government should negotiate. Negotiation could lead to hostages coming home, regime change in Gaza, progress towards a two-state solution, humanitarian aid reaching starving and dying people, justice through internationally recognised legal systems, and wider stabilisation in the region.

Because the Palestinian people are harbouring Hamas. A cease fire would mean sacrificing the Israeli hostages to their fate as prisoners of Hamas. It’s not as simple as just stopping the fighting and bombing. What are the protesters anticipating should happen after the ceasefire? Israel abandon the hostages, and the terrorists not being punished for the atrocities of October 7th? You do know Hamas will just re-stock re-group, and go into Israel again don’t you? I see the protestors wanting a cease fire, but what happens afterwards? I’ve yet to see one protestor or speech on the marches condemning Hamas, so by their silence they are condoning a terrorist group who have no compassion to the people they claim to represent.

@MumoftwoGirls11 thanks for outlining that. My own thoughts are below. I look forward to a respectful conversation about our differing views.

Point 1 - I don’t share your perception. I believe people are protesting because they are upset about the mass loss of life and destruction in Gaza. Demonstrating against the action taken by the Israeli government is not equivalent to supporting Hamas. I believe people don’t demonstrate as much about Hamas because it is a widely shared and accepted view that what they did on October 7th is wrong. Our government is not supporting Hamas, therefore our government is acting in line with our majority view and there is no need to protest about them.

Point 2 - That three people have been arrested for terror offences is not equivalent to everyone at the march being a terrorist sympathiser or supporting Hamas.

Point 3 - People should not have to give up their democratic right to protest against the mass killing of civilians because an unfavourable minority are using the marches as an excuse to openly display their antisemitic views. I think that as the police have been doing these people should be singled out and dealt with.

Over 10,000 children dead I think we've moved on from Palestinians harbouring Hamas. Harbouring them where in their tents, under the rubble? The suggestion that people on these matches are terrorist sympathiser is an absolute leap, people want to stop the bombing killing and starving of civilians. Your suggestion is to keep going until what? Everyone dead? There will bo no peace, no further hostages freed without dialogue and negotiations

Palestine isn't Kashmir, it is controlled by Israel even down to how much food gets in, how are they meant to prosper without agency? Palestine is an occupied state Israel don't want it to become an economic success and do everything to ensure they don't. And how are tourists meant to visit with closed borders? Ridiculous patronising comparison

@Livelovebehappy thank you.

I believe that the vast majority of people of within Palestine are not harbouring Hamas. There is probably an anti-Israel sentiment due to the many years of maltreatment and occupation, but that isn’t the same as harbouring terrorists. I also believe that within Israel there is an anti-Palestine sentiment because of the attacks against them.

A ceasefire deal should involve a hostage deal, I expect that most people would assume this.

There has been talk of a Middle Eastern security presence (not Israel) within Gaza after a ceasefire. Yes what happens after the ceasefire is a big concern to many people, the population of Gaza is undergoing constant trauma and their land is being destroyed, any anti-Israel sentiment that existed is likely to have grown massively. However the same can be said of Israel, who cannot be trusted to act proportionately or without bias. Each poses a risk to the other, and each has a right to peacefully exist.

You can see my comments above about why I believe people focus their attention on the Israeli response. I can see why it could seems as if the protestors have forgotten the hostages, maybe they should request that all hostages are returned, with it being obvious this includes those who were taken by Hamas, and those who are being taken by Israel

People are upset by the loss of life in Palestine. So am I. Some people’s responses are to pander to terrorists. Other people’s responses are to snuff out the terrorists.

Asking Israel to ceasefire is asking one side in an ongoing war to stand down. It follows that you’re then ok with collateral damage being Israeli not Palestinian. If you want to be taken seriously you have to propose solutions that can work, not ask one side to put their arms down in a war and be killed. If someone is shooting at me, I’ll damn well shoot back. Israel isn’t the aggressor here. Hence why I said marching and asking for an Israeli ceasefire isn’t really being Pro-Palestinian it’s just being anti-Israel.

It is more than just the three protestors. Time and again anti-Semitic placards have been seen at these marches. I was shocked today to see that very anti-Semitic phrase “river to sea” was projected on Big Ben. It’s a phrase that is widely used to indicate that Israel should be wiped out. It is very disingenuous to say it’s your right to protest whilst continuing to march with people who support such horrible views. With freedom comes responsibility. If you want the freedom to March you also have the responsibility to ensure that people you’re empowering by marching side to side are not terrorist sympathisers.

So you’re suggesting Israel should negotiate with terrorists?

Israel controlled the food that got in but not the rockets?

That is exactly my point. Israel didn’t control Gaza enough and pandered to terrorists because of pressure from the international community. Had it kept control of Gaza and administered it so that it became successful then terrorist ideology would have much much less support.

Maybe you should read up a little more about Kashmir and what happened from 2021 onwards.

@MumoftwoGirls11 it is actually the responsibility of the police to identify and remove racist protestors.

Israel isn’t snuffing out terrorists, it is killing innocent civilians, destroying key instructive within Gaza, and creating a mass breeding ground for terrorism.

If someone is shooting at you then I’m sure shooting back would be self defence, but shooting their whole family wouldn’t be self defence, it would be revenge.

Slightly off-topic, but just for my own understanding of where you're coming from, @MumoftwoGirls11 , who are you saying are the terrorists pandered to in Kashmir?

But if hostages are exchanged, and a ceasefire agreed, then what? Hamas want an Islamic Palestinian state in place of Israel. They don’t want a shared state, or two separate states side by side. They’ve already laid out their stall - they want Israel wiped out. Which means the war will never end, because Hamas will just continue towards their goal. There’s never going to be a compromise.

The marches are sickening

I see they've now taken over tower bridge. I'd turn the water hoses on

Yes! What other option is there? It's already happened and is happening through mediators such as quatar. Christ catch up. How do you think the hostage release was negotiated?

@MumoftwoGirls11 if you think Gaza was better under direct Israeli government administration, I'm guessing you never actually experienced it during that time. What was happening there back then was not conducive to building relationships or establishing peace. Several of us on this board saw that with our own eyes.

As said above, they negotiate hostage releases, then what? What was the point of it all if they just swap hostages? That wasn’t the goal of Hamas. They want one Islamic Palestinian state. Nothing less.

This is getting ridiculous. Palestine is currently being wiped out. What Hamas want and what Hamas can do are two very different things. What is the end game? You don't want a ceasefire, you don't want negotiations, and Netanyahu has been clear on his opposition to a two state solution So I am really unclear what you want to happen and how you see this ending?

I don’t agree that it’s the responsibility of the police alone to find the terrorist sympathisers, it is also the responsibility of the people marching to take reasonable steps to ensure they are not inadvertently supporting terrorist sympathisers.

Revenge is a very human emotion. Sadly I think Israel has been provoked too much over the years and Oct 7 was the final straw. I read that even Sinwar is now hiding and people in Palestine are now turning against him. If so, there might be hope for an end to the death and destruction.

@Livelovebehappy In 2017 Hamas released a new charter which did not call for the eradication of Israel. And no I am not supporting them by sharing widely available information. I am trying to clear up this misconception. Of course you can always argue that they didn’t really mean it, but this is what their charter says.

Gaza obviously needs a change of leadership, as does Israel.

I hear your concerns about what will happen after a ceasefire, but that can’t be used as justification for the killing of 12,000 children and the continued killing of innocent civilians. This is not the right way to achieve peace. Killing children is not the answer. The British public want Israel to stop killing children.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/01/hamas-new-charter-palestine-israel-1967-borders

The same people the Indian government calls terrorists.

@MumoftwoGirls11 I do agree that protestors also have a responsibility to not inadvertently support terrorists and we have had discussions about how people should move away from those doing this, and yes they can report them. But it is the police’s actual job to identify them and remove them, which I believe they have been doing.

That revenge is a very human emotion is to me not a justification for going on a killing spree. It is an explanation, not a get out of jail free card.