Has anyone changed their mind from what they have read on here?

[mollyfolk]

we’ve argued a lot. We’ve backed up our arguments with lots of proof. Has anyone changed their mind or viewpoint - I’m just interested?

it would be lovely if we didn’t argue here and just let everyone state their views.

I’ve spent most of my life in Ireland, where you’d be hard pressed, in the present day, to meet someone who doesn’t agree that the Israeli authorities treat Palestinian’s terribly. It wouldn’t be controversial here to say - isn’t it awful what’s happening in Gaza - in any situation whether when I lived in the UK it was a lot more controversial and wouldn’t be a suitable thing to mention in work for example.

I haven’t changed my mind but I’m a lot more educated about anti semitism and have more understanding of the viewpoint of people who support the Israeli government.

Nope.

A proud Zionist then and now! And ever shall I be.

No. Irish too and will always support, and have always since I was a teen (many moons ago), supported the Palestinians. I do not however support or condone Hamas just like the majority of Irish people did not support the IRA

But, and forgive me if I have this wrong. Isn’t Zionist the belief that Jews should have a homeland in the Middle East? I certainly don’t think that Isreal doesn’t have a right to exist - after all the majority of Israeli’s were born in Israel and obviously they have a right to be there. I don’t think Zionism by itself means supporting the Israeli authorities actions in Gaza right now.

No I haven't changed my mind. Hamas need to be eradicated.

Absolutely echo this. I do not support Hamas. I haven’t heard any support for Hamas around me. I actually grew up in a household where both sets of my grandparents would have supported the IRA so I understand, as do many others, how this support can change throughout the generations. It’s incredible how my own children are so removed from that nationalist viewpoint now.

I started out supporting civilians on both sides, and still do. I am very much against both Hamas and the IDF. That hasn't changed. I have learned a lot more about the intricacies of the situation.

I am not a Zionist. I do think that Jewish people deserve a country free of anti-Semitism where their religion is in the majority. Jewish people have been oppressed in so many different times and locations that I think the only solution is to have a designated safe haven. I don't think it needs to be specifically where Israel is located. But I don't know where else would be feasible.

I changed my mind on October 7th.

As a teenager (from an Irish family!) I protested for Palestine and saw it as a simplistic oppressor/oppressed dynamic. As I got older I settled for 'it's very complicated, generational trauma on both sides, and nobody currently living is responsible for 1948 so we need a two-state solution that respects everyone's rights'. Equal blame or support, really.

October 7th was truly horrifying to me. The fact is, if any one of us had been there, we'd have been slaughtered. It doesn't matter how left-wing or pro-Palestine you are, what religion or nationality. Hamas would have murdered you. Many of the people they killed or kidnapped were left-wing peace activists. Thai immigrant workers were killed - they aren't Israeli occupiers in any way.

Seeing people online justify rape and torture as 'resistance' was appalling.

If the country bordering mine was run by Hamas and had carried out such atrocities and announced their intention to do it again, I'd want Hamas eradicated. I wouldn't feel safe until they were. It doesn't surprise me that Israel thinks that way.

Agreed.

No. Always been pro Palestine and them recovering their land.
unfortunately, I’ve realised more people approve this genocide because those dying are second class citizens.

I didn't realise that Lebanese/Phalangists had carried out that slaughter of Palestinian people whilst the world did nothing.

I wasn't aware that 25 000 Syrians had been slaughtered in 19 months. I didn't know the number of people just that problems and uprising/fighting had been going on for a long time.

So much death and horror in that area.

I am by nature a peacemaker. Someone who sees every point of view. I have always had sympathy and understanding of all sides.

I have been shocked in the last couple of weeks at the intensity of my feelings against the Israeli government. The feelings of such anger are alien to me and I am surprised by some of the thoughts that have come into my head. Partly fuelled by the news and partly by the cold comments of zionists online.

This is my overriding perspective.

I want Hamas gone. They are not fit to run Palestine.

Sort of, but not in the way you were likely thinking about OP.

I'm Jewish. After two months of the rhetoric on here I now feel that antisemitism is more widespread in the UK than I'd previously thought. (I don't support the current Israeli gov't, fwiw, and I wish Palestinian people freedom from Hamas.) I also feel like I need to avoid "hot takes" when thinking about other conflicts, because the ill-informed content on here - not from everyone of course - has been maddening.

Of course you'd want Hamas eradicated but at the current cost to innocent Palestinians? Can't see myself ever supporting that amount of indiscriminate killing of my neighbours and certainly not in my name.

I've always understood that it's been the Israeli government's intention to actively marginalise and contain the Palestinians and to slowly take control of more and more land. There's so much evidence for this. I also understood the history of the Jewish people and I believed in the right to have 'safe' state. I am and always have supported a two state solution.

I don't watch TV or read much news, so a lot of my information comes from left wing activists. What really surprised me was how fervently everyone jumped on the Free Palestine bandwagon with hardly any condemnation of Hamas. I got the impression that people were actively supportive of the Hamas 'resistance'. I heard people say things like 'There's a lot of misinformation about Hamas'. All of the criticism was directed towards Israel. The tone shifted too. In these left wing circles, you're not allowed to raise any concern about the rise of anti-Semitism otherwise you're seen as uninformed and against the cause of Free Palestine. You're also not allowed to say that a situation is 'complex' as you get cancelled. Any kind of nuance is shut down immediately.

I think what has happened in Gaza is completely beyond defense due to the number of civilian casualties, most of them children, the power imbalance, the lack of proportionality and the relentlessness with with the Israeli government have acted. I think Israel need to immediately stop and rethink their strategy. I support any efforts to work towards peace, while recognising how entrenched the issues are and how intractable the conflict has been.

What has changed in me is a growing disdain for leftist activism (which has always been my political home) which is almost completely blind to anti-semitism and shuts down any conversation that doesn't tally with the agenda, however mild. I see clearer than ever that even though I hold left wing views on the issue, this is not enough for the majority of activists who are almost looking for signs that you're not actually in the 'in group'. The group-think on this is massive.
Either I'm less left wing than I thought (maybe as I'm getting older) OR the left has moved and become truly awful and intolerant to any divergent views, while pretending that they're the compassionate ones and everyone else is uncaring.
I'm now moving away from those types of circles because I just find it so hostile. Long term I'll continue to support peace efforts and a two state solution. Short term I'll continue to buy Palestinian products and donate to emergency aid in Gaza, I'll continue to march to end the violence and murder of innocent children, and I'll continue call out anti-Semitism. I'll continue to learn and deepen my understanding of the conflict. I do think all those things should be possible without vitriol from the left.

I've become very educated as to the cruelty of Hamas and the IDF that's for sure. And more educated on the oppression of Palestinians as a whole.

Sad at the clapping on of war crimes and collective punishment.

I think what you're describing is the extreme left and you get those entrenched extremist views on the left and right. The majority of people tend to sit in the middle and veer slightly either way depending on the issue. In Ireland we have a couple of very left wing parties in our opposition such as "people before profit". I do agree with a bit of what they say and oppose, but every now and again those extreme views come through which completely puts off me and more middle ground voters.
I guess what I'm saying is the views you describe, I feel are in the minority, and most of us can see the bigger picture and understand the importance of condemning Israeli oppression of the Palestinians and the current genocide while at the same time condemning Hamas attacks and the growth in antisemitism.We are capable of both.

I feel like this too. The pro Palestine marchers really made me shocked and the extreme views from the left, were dreadful. The anti semitism on the Labour Party which i understand is gradually being sorted.

I've also distanced myself from people who see terrorists as freedom fighters. I mean they raped and tortured people. Peace activists were slaughtered too. They didn't care and seemed to enjoy killing on the videos they took.

I now realise there is much more history.

I feel more anger at Israel, not less.

Anyone who slaughters innocent children is vile. Both sides are guilty of this. But “we” were asked to fully support the side that in my view is actually the worse of the two. The settlers have been awful and the Palestinians have suffered a great deal. And Israel’s recent behaviour - killing thousands and thousands of children in a few short weeks and destroying the futures of many more - has been completely unjustifiable. I understand why the US continues to send military aid - if they didn’t, Israel would be quickly wiped out and it is, after all, America’s aircraft carrier in the Middle East. But I think the US along with all the other Western countries seem increasingly uneasy at what they are funding.

As a child I was given a book on the founding of Israel by parents who were happy for the Jewish people. As a student I visited Dachau - almost a rite of passage for all European students - and was appalled.

But I am afraid that Israel with its racist, land-grabbing, mass-child-slaughtering elected government has completely lost its way.

Yes the cruel shooting of sheltering families at point blank range a few days ago, including mothers, children and newborn babies was a special kind of low. Totally inexcusable.

So where do you expect all the Jews to go?

Jews have ONE country they can call their own - and the ONLY reason they can do that is because of the most extreme genocide of our era. Six million Jews murdered, only for the survivors to be liberated and driven out their own countries through deep hatred. Do you h detest and why the Jews needed a homeland and why they reclaimed their land? That FYI has never been Palestinian owned. Also FYI there are 60 Muslim and Arab countries and not one has offered a home to their fellow man in Palestine. Yet it’s Jews who need to go elsewhere?

There is a history of Jewish exile that goes back thousands of years. Anti-demotion is alive and well. Jews make up a tiny percentage of the world ms population and yet experience the most religious discrimination. It terrifies me that less than 100 years after the Holocaust, it’s happening again - kicking Jews out their homes under the guise of “They’re getting too powerful we need to get rid of them”. The very same propaganda is being used that the Nazis used in magazines, posters, literature. And look what happened there.

My views haven't changed. I still support Palestine and I think Netanyahu/IDF have gone way too far in their killing of civilians. I deeply resent the UKs support of this project, and am angry that those calling for a ceasefire often get smeared as pro Hamas. Those feelings have only intensified.
I just want to say that I condemn antisemitism in all its forms, and even before this awful conflict, I have always been quite diligent about trying to deepen my understanding the Jewish perspective. I 100% believe Jewish people when they say antisemitism exists in the uk, and I actually quit my membership of Labour a few years ago because I felt that they were turning blind eyes to the problem. I have always tried my utmost in my pro-palestinian support over the years to distance myself from people on the left who hold extreme and intolerant views, and have pulled friends up on antisemitic tropes in the past. I will continue to do so.
So in a nutshell, my views are the same as ever - staunchly pro Palestine (but anti Hamas). I guess I'm doubling down on my efforts to conduct myself with integrity and make sure I don't do anything to stoke hate- for example my workplace has an optional training on antisemitism, and I signed up straight away. But I still believe in a ceasefire.

That is such a good question. I haven’t changed my mind but I have been interested to hear other points of view and I know more about the conflict than I did before. It’s good to have a space to discuss these things and I’m happy to live in a country where we are freely able to do so. I hope we can maintain our right to free speech and tolerance for points of view we don’t agree with. I don’t want to live in a society that is governed by fear and control of differences.