Has anyone changed their mind from what they have read on here?

[mollyfolk]

we’ve argued a lot. We’ve backed up our arguments with lots of proof. Has anyone changed their mind or viewpoint - I’m just interested?

it would be lovely if we didn’t argue here and just let everyone state their views.

I’ve spent most of my life in Ireland, where you’d be hard pressed, in the present day, to meet someone who doesn’t agree that the Israeli authorities treat Palestinian’s terribly. It wouldn’t be controversial here to say - isn’t it awful what’s happening in Gaza - in any situation whether when I lived in the UK it was a lot more controversial and wouldn’t be a suitable thing to mention in work for example.

I haven’t changed my mind but I’m a lot more educated about anti semitism and have more understanding of the viewpoint of people who support the Israeli government.

This was to @LeaveBritneyAlone

Who said “all” Palestinians?

Of course they can’t Co-exist. There’s too much hate to live peacefully.

FWIW I do wish they could come to a two state solution but under the current motivations of both camps that would be entirely infeasible.

I also know many Israelis who deplore their governments actions. But it doesn’t mean they’d be safe to live in a two state system the way things stand right now

And yours were heard probably before yo changed your username. Not sure what point you’re trying to make.

@LeaveBritneyAlone This is what you said

Deluded people thinking they can all hold hands and get along. Palestinians hate Jewish people

Israelis don’t, you mean.
Netanyahu has stated this explicitly.

People can say there's too much hate for a 2 state solution, but as far as I can see it has never seriously been tried. I do think the world probably has to impose some borders on Israel and Palestine, at least to begin with, as it seems impossible to just leave it up to the 2 parties to work it out.

They also ‘tried’ putting Jews in ghettos in Nazi occupied states too ‘for their own protection’ - and a small few Jewish people who clocked on what that was REALLY about, fled. I’d rather they didn’t ‘try’ anything that would once again compromise the safety of Jewish people.

I know. But people who say “Israel can end this tomorrow” are wrong. No one has any clear solutions and it’s so nuanced that no solution is ‘simple’. I do not support Netanyahu - and in fact know nobody who does. But Hamas must be stopped and until Palestine no longer pose a threat to Jewish people (not Israel - Jewish people), the war cannot end.

Still does not justify the murder of thousands of innocent children and the orphaning and maiming of thousands more.

Israel may consider Israeli children’s lives to be more valuable than Palestinian ones but to the third party onlooker they are of equal value.

@LeaveBritneyAlone Of course, but the land has to be shared. There's no other fair solution. Israel does need some firm borders, rather than flexible ones that extend into the WB, Syria and now Gaza. They have the military might to defend those borders once they have been defined and internationally agreed. If a contiguous state of Palestine can be created there will be nothing else to fight about, surely. The two countries can just ignore each other, and maybe in time become more friendly.

@stormy4319trevor
This

Bumper zone, no UK or US or French involvement ever again because whatever they touch, it turns to ash looking at history and today. Neutral Peace guarantors to keep peace and real enforcement not some measly excuse like the UN . Siege to end to allow Palestinians to prosper on its own. Israel has to fear this enforcement and so does the Palestinians.

So it goes back to two state solution to end this bloodshed but good luck to the world enforcing this because this will never ever happen as long as the US and UK facilitate arming and practicing silent dictatorship to favour one and only Israel for their own interest. I hope in my lifetime there will be long term peace. ✌️

Do pro-Hamas posters understand how terrifying that is?

Do you mean the pro Palestinian posters?

I’m not saying there’s any excuse for hamas behaviour. That goes without saying. The fact we have to say it for Israel is the confusing part.

And hamas are not recognised as a government by our country. They are a designated terrorist group. So am I surprised when terrorists do terrorist things - no. Does that excuse it or make it right. Obviously not!!!! The oct attacks were barbaric and disgusting. Absolute savages who deserve nothing more than to hid in holes in the ground in fear. But that doesn’t mean Israel can bomb a whole country. It just doesn’t.

In the same way I don’t think it’s acceptable for us to carpet bomb Iran or any other Muslim state because we have terror attacks here. That should go without saying.

Hiccup, burp, repeat, echo etc

Is that meant to be self-explanatory as well? 😂

Do you even know why the ‘Naqba’ was called the ‘Great Catastrophe’? I’ll give you a clue - who won the 1948 Arab-Israeli war and who started it?

It would make more sense if it was called the ‘Great Ethnic Cleansing’ from the Palestinian POV.

This is very interesting as it includes copies of communications from the time:

https://david-collier.com/1948-nakba/

Also this, especially if you read the About Us section to explain why this this website was set up in the first place:

https://honestreporting.com/the-nakba-narrative-a-history-of-deception/

@FrozenWindscreen

Well clearly Israel has its own views on the Naqba.

Rather than try to untangle that, let’s move to a more recent time frame where deaths on both sides have been accurately and independently verified.

How do you feel about these facts and figures?. (pre Oct 7)

How on earth can you compare Palestinian deaths to Israeli?

Israel protects it’s citizens. By law every residential and Industrial building (even school bus stops and playgrounds) have to have bomb shelters and warning sirens, and it created the iron dome costing billions to protect its citizens from constant rocket attacks which will have prevented thousands of deaths and casualties.

I wonder how many Israeli deaths the blockade prevented after a terrorist government were voted in in Gaza?

Compare with Hamas stating publicly that Gazan civilians are not their responsibility, miles of terrorist tunnels built built with billions of aid but no bomb shelters, and constantly firing upon Israel with a well documented strategy of using civilians as human shields (indoctrinated to believe that dying as a martyr for their cause will guarantee them a place in paradise which despite absolutely no proof to the contrary is better than living a peaceful life on earth) and using civilian buildings as military bases and armouries.

There’s also the ‘pay per slay’ policy operated by the PLO and Hamas where families are promised apartments and a monthly stipend for terrorist attacks.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund

I don’t believe Israel operates summer schools for kids to practise jihad or has a similar pay per slay policy for civilians to carry out terrorist attacks on Palestinians or have I missed that?

Nuts comparison and no, there should have been no civilian deaths on either side.

It is not a nuts comparison. Unless you think that thousands and thousands of innocent Palestinian lives are worth less than Israeli lives? Do you?

The bottom line is that Israel has murdered exponentially more Palestinians than Palestinians have murdered Israelis. The facts are there in black and white. And that was BEFORE the current mass slaughter of children.

Regarding the OP I knew Israel was behaving badly but until reading many of these facts on Mumsnet and elsewhere (freely available pretty much everywhere, including verified MSM) I didn’t realise how badly. So my opinion of Israel has worsened considerably since this recent escalation of mass murder on both sides, but especially on Israel’s.

And I have seen plenty of videos of Israeli schoolchildren being taught hate-filled songs and doctrine against Palestinians. So your jihad summer camp accusation works both ways.

And re pay per slay, the IDF soldiers currently slaughtering children in their thousands get paid by the Israeli government. Don’t they?

The hypocrisy and double standards would be laughable if so many children weren’t dying.

I haven't changed my view on what I believe is right and wrong, or my concerns about certain forces.

What I have learned, sadly, is that some people have demonstrated that they are even more lacking in compassion than I thought.

People have cheered the deaths of my friends and colleagues.

People have openly told me that my child and I should go to die in an air strike.

People verbally and physically attack me, and my friends, and other people are ok with that.

We live in a world where my child's life matters less to other people because of their blood. We live in a world where people either celebrate or shrug when children like my child are murdered.

No. I have been shocked at the ignorance of many of those on the pro-Palestinian side though, so much so that I can't even be bothered to engage anymore.