IDF shoot hostages in Gaza after 'mistakenly identifying them as a threat'

[Struggggggling]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/idf-kill-israeli-hostages-mistakenly-identifying-hamas-gaza/

Previous hostages warned this would happen, tragic events. There is no winner in this conflict only losers.

Do you think Israel will now change tactics or if any histage swaps will take priority?

The hostages families must now fear IDF as well as hamas. Impossible situation to be in.

Do you think it would be beyond Hamas to send out people with explosives or weapons in their trousers, but topless and waving a white flag?

No I do not but the IDF are posting pictures of them accepting allegedly surrendering Hamas fighters, who are still in possession of weapons, without shooting them. How does that work?

Anyone hiding weapons in their trousers would have to be a remarkably quick draw to take out their weapons and shoot before the IDF beat them to it, the men were not taking cover, they intentionally presented themselves to the IDF.

By your logic the IDF have a license to shoot anyone not in an IDF uniform, which they seem to be doing anyway and getting away with it.

It's still a war crime to shoot anyone apparently unarmed and waving the international symbol of surrender.

I think the soldiers who shot them did not have cool, calm, collected minds.

There are going to be some who can handle the uncertainty of who is civilian and who is Hamas better than others.

Why would you expect ‘logic’ to be the guiding principle when tackling an enemy who don’t wear uniforms and use cunning and deceit instead? They play recordings of crying children to draw Israeli soldiers towards explosives, dress as civilians, etc. Hamas do everything to disguise themselves as innocent civilians. Of course it’s going to be those innocent civilians who are then going to be mistaken for Hamas. It’s the reason for wearing uniforms- so you can recognise your own side and the enemy. Hamas don’t do that. That’s on Hamas.

So not a well trained disciplined army then. Funny as I thought the IDF were supposed to be but obviously not.

What is the point in that comment?

Summarising how you described the IDF, poorly trained poorly disciplined soldiers. A danger to themselves and others. Israel should be ashamed sending them to fight if they are so ill equipped to deal with the situation.

Why do Hamas not let Palestinians flee to safety?

Where is this magic safe place?

Why do Hamas have tunnels under children’s playgrounds and hospitals?

To avoid being caught by drones. To smuggle. To escape. And so on.

They are using Palestinian citizens as human shields so that however Israel reacts to defend itself will appear to be an attack on innocent civilians, and the world will view any Israeli acts of self-defence as ‘unlawful’.

Israelis shoot to kill. It does not matter who is in front of them. It is a sustained campaign of control and fear. N unlike what we did in N. Ireland with our shoot to kill policies. The IDFis not fucking UN organization with sweets in their pockets. Stop sanitizing it. For your own sake - seperate wood from trees.

When you see hostage videos, from any historical capture of hostages, and the hostages say “We are being very well treated”, do you think those hostages are freely speaking the truth, or do you think that are saying what they have been told and threatened to say, and they take those threats very seriously, with good reason?

True

Hamas are very aware of optics, and the idea they would release hostages without keeping any sort of hold over them is ridiculous.

It must be devasting for the familes of the hostages.

I didn’t describe them that way. Those were your words.

With an enemy who disguises themselves as innocent civilians and uses trickery to make soldiers dissociate from humane impulses so as not to fall into a trap, these soldiers are forced to make judgments which discipline and training can’t really prepare you for. In those moments they are faced with a choice: 1. Possibly make the wrong call and live, or 2. Possibly make the wrong call and die.

Hamas are deliberately playing mind games and endangering innocent people in an attempt to undermine any training and discipline. The mistakes made in such a treacherous environment do not mean the soldiers are not as well-trained and disciplined as you could expect an army to be.

@Bagpussdreams the IDF have clearly stated that the actions of the soldiers who killed the hostages goes against the rules of engagement they have.
Which means that any soldiers killing unarmed civilians would also fall under this category.
So I'm not sure why you are still defending these actions.
Ofcourse it's difficult considering Hamas are not wearing identifiable uniforms but it doesn't absolve these actions and those who have concerns have every right to have them in light of recent events

Well exactly. This is my point. IDF are stating words to the effect that these soldiers were not following the rules, they are criticising their own soldiers behaviour and admitting culpability that this does not follow international law.

That is my point entirely.

Hamas are not condemning the actions of their own are they? Breaking international law is their main method. They are doing it deliberately in order to draw Israel into treacherous conditions. To make their soldiers skittish. To make them screw up. To make them look bad to the outside world.

The IDF have to wear uniforms to stop themselves shooting each other

@Bagpussdreams The families of the remaining hostages also have concerns that the same might happen again to their loved ones.
Hamas should never have taken them in the first place for them to even be in this situation but that doesn't mean that their concerns are not valid.
It would be wrong to minimise it and try and explain it away to them.
Likewise to all those outside of Palestine who are showing the exact same concern and alarm.

Regardless of the rules and circumstances it was clear they were not followed. It's just in this instance they came to light because of who the victims were.

That’s the case for all the wold’s military. They’re not special in that regard.

It is a massive screw up, no doubt about it, but I can see how it can happen with an enemy like Hamas.

Also, I am sure that the IDF are busy doing all they can to make sure it doesn’t happen again. It’s just the worst kind of screw up.

@Bagpussdreams Its not skittish soldiers and it's not Hamas. We've seen the videos/reports of the IDF shooting unarmed people/children dead when under no threat at all. One of them which I posted - the soldier disobeyed an order and shot a child dead. None of them get punished, taciturn support. So no surprise they shot these hostages.

@Bagpussdreams the concerns that people are having is that this isn't the first time this has happened. I have seen similar sentiments from military analysts who have also highlighted this especially when considering the death toll.
It was a screw up when it happened to the hostages but what about all the videos we have seen of other unarmed civilians being shot dead including children?
There's hardly any media attention and it's just waved away
Can you see why people are angry at the double standards?
Do you know when a white house representative was asked about the horrifying incident where the babies were left to die and decompose by the IDF at an-nassar hospital, his response was simply to say yes the US are aware and it's a tragedy and they have asked Israel to change their tactics. Not even a word of condemnation.

Would the response have been the same if these were Israeli or American babies? Can you not see the hypocrisy and how little value Palestinian lives have?

Where would the explosives be hidden?

IDF seems to be operating a "shoot on sight policy" they shot an elderly woman and child yesterday, doubtless 1kg of Semtex hidden in the childs clothing.

The tactics used & justifications by Israel are exactly the same as Russia has used in Ukraine.

I was under the impression Israel declared war. Regarding Israeli babies, I’ve noticed a distinct sluggishness about condemning the October 7th attacks.

Terribly sad and tragic.

Not to excuse them but at least the IDF did own up and apologise compared to the lying of their aggressors!

They could hardly not own up, it was recorded, witnessed and the bodies riddled with IDF issue bullets.

Hamas admitted they carried out the sickening October 7th attacks and took over 200 hostages.

Very low bar.

Not quite like that

The story leaked into the Israeli press first - then it was confirmed by the IDF

Hamas “owned up“ to it to send out a galvanising message to all the Israel-haters around the world.

That’s different to the IDF owning up to screwing up, being ashamed and doing wrong.

@Bagpussdreams I am not trying to get into a tit for tat with you so I will just leave it now.