IDF shoot hostages in Gaza after 'mistakenly identifying them as a threat'

[Struggggggling]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/idf-kill-israeli-hostages-mistakenly-identifying-hamas-gaza/

Previous hostages warned this would happen, tragic events. There is no winner in this conflict only losers.

Do you think Israel will now change tactics or if any histage swaps will take priority?

So just the third man was killed by his own in spite of calling out, the same way the Israeli hero at the bus stop was.

Was there any report about the hostages covering their heads? One hostage had very distinctive pale red hair. He does not look Palestinian at all.

It would be good if the IDF were repeatedly given hostage photos to get to know.

Correction. The third man ( no ‘just’).

The IDF normally release names of soldiers killed in battle including ages. Many of the times the soldiers killed are very young in age approx 19-20.
Is there a reason why there are so many young soldiers? Is that the norm for most armies?

I know what you mean but have seen pics of Palestinian children and adolescents with strawberry blond hair - so not a definite marker

Also don't know time of day when this happened or presence of smoke effecting visibility

@Parkingt111 Assume it's because the majority of Israelis do compulsory national service when they turn 18. Women serve 2 years, men a bit longer (I think)

It is a possibility as is the possibility that the hostages being whisked away and debriefed by the Israeli Shin Bet (intelligence) that they were also warned not to disparage the war effort.

If that’s the case then this OP suggests that the freed hostages are ignoring the Israeli intelligence services, so they can’t have that much of a hold over them.

@etmoiandme that would explain it. Thank you

Do you think that terrorist organisations follow international law or something? Why would Hamas have captured and taken the most vulnerable members of society as hostages if it wasn’t for bargaining power?

Why do Hamas not let Palestinians flee to safety?

Why do Hamas have tunnels under children’s playgrounds and hospitals?

They are using Palestinian citizens as human shields so that however Israel reacts to defend itself will appear to be an attack on innocent civilians, and the world will view any Israeli acts of self-defence as ‘unlawful’.

When you see hostage videos, from any historical capture of hostages, and the hostages say “We are being very well treated”, do you think those hostages are freely speaking the truth, or do you think that are saying what they have been told and threatened to say, and they take those threats very seriously, with good reason?

Hamas are very aware of optics, and the idea they would release hostages without keeping any sort of hold over them is ridiculous.

Genuine question, are we looking at different footage of the "paraded naked" story? I don't have Facebook, X, Insta or TikTok, so all I've seen is a short film of men gathered in a square, kneeling, not naked. I just don't understand your I'm saddened you think the sexual assault of innocent men is justifiable - sincerely, am I missing something?

the empathy that comes through for the Palestinians is very limited - why is that?
Really? all I'm trying to do is challenge ridiculous comments blaming Israel for absolutely every aspect of the dreadful situation Gazans find themselves in. Although I'm prepared to accept that this was not the intention, it sometimes comes across as Hamas propaganda.

I do hope you take time to consider and reflect on whether you would feel the same way for the things listed if it was Hamas conducting those actions on Israel.
And if you wouldn't feel the same, why?
This is just such a weird question, I don't know where to begin with it.

No, the quote the OP posted was what a former hostage said to Nethanyu in the hostage and family meeting with Nethanyu. The possible warning I was speaking of would be about speaking directly to the press/media.

Hamas definitely do not abide by international law, however the world rightly expects that a sanctioned state military would abide by international law. IDF have repeatedly broken dozens of international laws so far.

Firing on unarmed humans carrying a white flag is just one. Even if the hostages they mistakenly killed had been Hamas, by international law you cannot fire on enemy combatants if they are unarmed and with a white flag.

Palestinians cannot “flee to safety” because Israel has besieged Gaza. There is no way in or out unless your name is on an Israel approved list at Rafah crossing. Very few wounded civilians have been allowed by Israel to leave, less than 1%.

The Hamas tunnel system, like any undergound tunnel system go under civilian buildings. Every metro in every city goes under civilian infrastructure. The mere presence of tunnels under civilian buildings is not considered using human shields. There would have to be access to the tunnels from inside the civilian buildings themselves. Finally, just because your enemy breaks international law, that doesn’t mean you can too. It doesn’t become a free for all, you still have to avoid civilian casualties as much as possible.

The fact IDF gunned down unarmed hostages, shirtless, and waving a white flag, is evidence that Palestinian civilians, UN workers, Red Cross and so on are likely not lying about the indiscriminate nature of IDF’s ground offensive.

The fact IDF gunned down unarmed hostages, shirtless, and waving a white flag, is evidence that Palestinian civilians, UN workers, Red Cross and so on are likely not lying about the indiscriminate nature of IDF’s ground offensive

Absolutely. This is the same army that gets so upset it writes the names of it's enemies (Aka prominent pro Palestinian twitter accounts) on rockets to be fired into Gaza.

I'm beginning to understand why the American urban warfare expert sent by Biden to aid Israel left before the ground offensive began.

https://x.com/mohammed_hijab/status/1736085654323232783?s=20

Hamas are using the constraints of international law against Israel. Rigging explosives in tunnels with recordings of children crying, concealing them inside children’s toys, hiding weapons inside incubators meant for premature babies in hospital and so on. It is very deliberate. The tunnels don’t just ‘happen’ to go under hospitals. It is all cleverly thought out. It’s like they are training Israelis soldiers to ignore their humane instincts.

The reality is that Hamas are not “using the constraints of international law” against the IDF because IDF isn’t following international law and hasn’t followed international law for decades. There would be no sense in Hamas devising their strategy on the premise that IDF will follow international law.

You need to see the maps of the tunnels because they literally did not dig extra metres this way and that to go under civilians buildings. The tunnels were originally dug preHamas for smuggling in prohibited goods like infant formula for babies with cows milk allergy, pasta, solar panels, fertiliser generator fuel, etc. When Hamas took control of Gaza by a coup, they repurposed the tunnels.

You are kind of forgetting that the 2007 permanent blockade was preceded by a 2yr temporary blockade which was preceded by a full on military occupation from 1967 to 2005. The tunnels were already there when Hamas took over.

There would be no sense in Hamas devising their strategy on the premise that IDF will follow international law.

Are you really serious?

Israel may struggle to defend itself(whilst not falling foul of international law), with an opponent who openly shows gleeful contempt of international law, openly gloating about using rape, torture, deliberate killing of civilians, taking vulnerable people as hostages, etc. It’s like going into a boxing match with someone who has brought a knife. There is international pressure on Israel to follow international law, Israel feels it and Hamas knows it, and uses this imbalance to their full advantage.

Yes I am serious. Are you aware of what IDF did in every conflict since 1948 to civilians? And what they have done even when not engaged in armed conflict but doing military raids in occupied territories?

It’s like going into a boxing match with someone who has brought a knife.
Yes that is how it is for Hamas. Literally. Hamas has dumb rockets, small arms and IEDs. IDF has self guided missiles, an air force, a navy, tanks, artillery, howitzers, UAVs, satellites, etc. The imbalance from a pure which has the most troops, best weapons, and most military might is very heavily imbalanced in favour of IDF.

I really struggle to believe this. Straight off the bat Israel announced they were going to attempt to starve everyone of food and water. Surely a country that is feeling the pressure to abide by international law wouldn't go well first up we are going to starve everybody 🤷🏻‍♀️

And if you want to talk about imbalance there is the fact that a country with a military with planes and tanks has been bombing the shit out of somewhere that doesn't have any military at all. Surely that is a massive imbalance? A place where they control all of the exits, where they control all of the imports?

And if you want to talk about open gleeful contempt take a look at the social media posts of IDF soldiers, there is plenty there to keep you busy.

You are side-stepping. No one is questioning whether Israel has superior military might. You missed the point about the boxing match with a knife analogy.

The issue is the pressure to act within international law.

You are claiming that Israel feels no pressure in that regard.

You also seem to be claiming there is parity between the pressure on Israel and Hamas to follow international law, I could have that wrong.

In the boxing ring, there are rules to follow to minimise harm on both sides. If one boxer brings a knife, they break the rules.

When you send poorly trained teenage conscripts to war this sort of awful thing is going to happen. These kids are probably terrified for their lives and just want to shoot anyone before they might shoot them. They're shooting unarmed, topless guys, one with red hair and one with a white flag and don't even stop when one starts begging in Hebrew or when they are ordered to stop.

These are not people who should be in a war, they are a danger to themselves, to their fellow soldiers and to innocent civilians. I don't think Netanyahu cares though, any more than Hamas care about their people. They both just have their eyes on the prize and that's all that matters.

Israel were guilty of all the crimes you describe well before 7th October. They've been getting away with it for years. Detaining and abusing children and executing unarmed civilians. There is footage of soldiers who fought in 1948 laughing about raping Palestinian women and reports more recently of the IDF filming themselves raping Palestinian women and threatening to release the footage to shame and humiliate the women unless they act as informers for the IDF.

Aren't you surprised that, according to the IDF, they manage not to shoot alleged Hamas fighters who appear to still be armed when they surrender but somehow have shot 3 unarmed men waving a white flag and appealing for help in Hebrew? Why isn't your head spinning with the inconsistency of it all?

The Council on American-Islamic Relations (Cair), the US’s largest Muslim civil rights and advocacy organization, has released this as part of a statement

The killing of unarmed, shirtless Israelis waving a white flag is deadly confirmation that Israeli troops are shooting anything that moves in Gaza

Despite the daily evidence of the far-right Israeli government’s ongoing campaign of ethnic cleansing and genocide in Gaza, our nation continues to rush taxpayer-funded weapons to Israel to accelerate the slaughter – even bypassing congressional approval to do so.

In this instance before the killing of the third hostage who was shouting in Hebrew to be saved, the battalion commander even ordered to ceasefire.
But the soldier/s continued the barrage of fire despite that. Maybe they were scared, but how many other civilians have been killed like this that we will never know about?
This ofcourse raises very real concerns, especially considering the civilian death toll is so high in Gaza

Ive probably missed this here, but how come IDF admitted they killed these hostages by accident? They never seem to admit anything. Was a whistle-blower involved?

If you see 10 people all looking much the same and know 5 are civilians and 5 are terrorists, which ones do you stop or do you let them all go so you don't harm the civilians.

Even if they were Hamas, they were shirtless, unarmed and waving a white flag, it would be a war crime to shoot them.

Be able to tell the difference between civilians and Hamas is irrelevant here.