IDF shoot hostages in Gaza after 'mistakenly identifying them as a threat'

[Struggggggling]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/idf-kill-israeli-hostages-mistakenly-identifying-hamas-gaza/

Previous hostages warned this would happen, tragic events. There is no winner in this conflict only losers.

Do you think Israel will now change tactics or if any histage swaps will take priority?

Not what I'm talking about.

The Red Cross have consistently positioned themselves prominently in the hostage exchanges, they clearly have liaisons within Hamas and yet members of the Red Cross at the meetings with the hostages’ families refused to even try to facilitate a medication transfer, and instead used it as an opportunity to castigate these people about the Palestinians, which is not within the remit of an impartial, neutral organisation providing humanitarian assistance.

I don’t have Xitter, if someone could link me to a tweet with the Red Cross’ condemnation of Hamas refusing access to the hostages (which I believe was a condition of both the last temporary pause in fighting and the UN ceasefire resolution) and how the hostages who need Red Cross assistance got there in the first place, I’d appreciate it.

I'm wary of people attacking the Red Cross. These are very brave people doing a job that I don't suppose many would do. I don't know why they would not transfer medication, but we probably need more details to judge.

I’m not attacking the Red Cross, so there’s not much to be wary of, I’m just don’t consider the Red Cross to be above oversight or criticism.

OK @25milesfromhome I see your point, just not sure we have enough information to judge. And also, the Red Cross perform a pretty heroic task. I hope they will give some explanation about coming across as unhelpful. or unsympathetic to hostages and families. I'm sure their task isn't easy and there may be limitations as to what they can do.

@stormy4319trevor but surely you can see why people israel particularly hostages families may feel upset with them.

They are supposed to be impartial but are showing themselves not to be.

I also would be happy to take any board any criticism of Hamas from them? Especially in light of them being little more than a taxi service regardless of their perceived role.

I can appreciate the anger the hostage families have- but I think it’s targeted to the wrong people. Their own government has not prioritised release of hostages but preferred to continue to with a bombardment that puts hostages as well as Palestinian civilians at risk in so many ways. The Red Cross can’t give medication if they don’t have access to the hostages:

“The ICRC have met directly with the families of hostages who have urged them to transport personal medications belonging to the hostages.
However, the ICRC can only take them once they have been granted access to visit the hostages. They’ve asked the families to keep the medicines in the meantime.
As soon as the ICRC is granted access to visit the hostages, they will deliver medicine and other aid to hostages.
The ICRC have repeatedly asked for access to the hostages to check on their health conditions and make sure they have the humanitarian assistance they need.
The ICRC are ready to carry out those visits and provide the necessary aid as soon as they have access to the hostages.”

Frankly they are not miracle workers- how can they deliver medication to people they don’t have access to.

https://www.redcross.org.uk/stories/disasters-and-emergencies/world/what-is-the-red-cross-doing-to-help-hostages-in-gaza

@stomachameleon I do understand that hostage families are very worried and that they want everything done to try to help their lived ones. It is possible as @Polka83 has posted, that the Red Cross could not get to the hostages to give the meds, though. Maybe that was not well communicated to the families and that should be looked at. I think they probably have all kinds of limitations on what they can do or say however, and we probably need more info. I stand by my view that they do dangerous and heroic work and we need people like that in the world.

I think it likely the hostage families were told this- but it’s likely that couldn’t accept it. Or need to hear it again. Perhaps that takes a court case to spell it out.

It’s pretty amazing the reporting of this- that press releases have not queried whether ICRC could deliver the medication in the first place.

Meanwhile federate 5 workers of the ICRC have been killed. Never mind numerous the UN workers.

@stormy4319trevor it was part of the original deal for a suspension of fighting.

I believe a truly heroic thing is to stay neutral and not be opinionated in such a way you could damage relations with one side of a conflict. Also (and this was shown in footage from the meeting) not look bored and be dismissive of someone's concerns.

It may have been part of the deal- but looking at twitter feed of the ICRC - they received released hostages only.

@Polka83 I am aware of that.
Then maybe as they rely on an Element of trust from both sides they would be better remaining neutral.
Have you watched the footage? Of the meeting?

I agree about the Red Cross, I just wish there was more compassion for the situation Israel finds itself in. They're not miracle workers either, and I wouldn't want to be in their boots with the task at hand.

They risk their lives trying to help people. It could all kick off when they collect hostages and they could be killed. Maybe they could do with some training in communication, but they are not risking their lives to get people out for fun, I am sure. It isn't fair to call them 'glorified taxi drivers.'

Sorry I don’t understand your point?
Do you think the ICRC can dictate to Hamas that they take them to the hostages?
Do you think Hamas are going to do that when it will reveal where the hostages are?
Perhaps, in good will, Israel could have supplied enough medication to get through for all in Gaza, then some would have got through to the hostages. Children wouldn’t be having amputations without anaesthesia etc.

@Polka83 perhaps in the same light Hamas could have not built tunnels under said hospitals and made them a target leading to those poor children having to have amputations without anaesthetic?

I don't doubt it's a difficult situation but once again I draw your attention to the footage of the meeting and their sheer reluctance to even ask?

"In the meeting, Burstien, who says he previously served in Israel's military intelligence directorate, displayed a PowerPoint on "Limiting Prominent NGO Intervention" for an unnamed government, Forbidden Stories said.
"Our client had a real problem with a specific NGO that really was not objective... The question is, how do you... put them on the sideline?" he told them.

"For the past month, the pro-government media had been accusing the Red Cross of links with local terrorist groups. This was the result of an elaborate manipulation operation designed and operated by the Israeli company Percepto, with the help of Burkinabe security services, aimed at damaging the image of an international NGO perceived to be a little too critical about the practices of the country's military forces, particularly the arbitrary arrests and mistreatment of prisoners."

How the Red Cross was the target of a sophisticated destabilization campaign (lemonde.fr)

A Washington Post investigation found no evidence of Hamas tunnels in Al-Shifa and 5 other hospitals.

www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/21/al-shifa-hospital-gaza-hamas-israel/

From the red cross' website.

@braticus it's behind a paywall.

Absolutely agree Hamas’ tunnels make it extremely difficult for IDF.
I can’t tell from the footage I have seen whether this question of medication was asked. I’ve only seen snippets. What footage have you seen that excludes this?

@Polka83 it was on Channel 4 news. I will see if I can find it.