IDF shoot hostages in Gaza after 'mistakenly identifying them as a threat'

[Struggggggling]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/idf-kill-israeli-hostages-mistakenly-identifying-hamas-gaza/

Previous hostages warned this would happen, tragic events. There is no winner in this conflict only losers.

Do you think Israel will now change tactics or if any histage swaps will take priority?

Then surely the headline would be IDF lies and didn’t actually kill 3 Israeli hostages. They were actually suicide bombers!

Unless all you want to do is rage about how much you hate the IDF. In which case, ya know, crack on.

Lt Col Jonathan Conricus explaining to the BBC that the hostages were killed by mistake because they were wearing civilian clothes. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume the hostages were not in possession of weapons. They just can't help telling on themselves can they.

I don't think the Israeli police service have disclosed how many Gazans are currently being held in Israeli prisons and under what charges so I don't think they have any chance of being released.
Any deal made will probably be with those imprisoned from the occupied West bank.

Intelligence?

By your logic every person in Gaza is a potential terrorist. Why not bomb them all eh?

Newborn babies, 92 year old women shot at point blank range, journalists - this is not ok. Do you think that is ok?

No, you use your intelligence services to work out who the terrorists are. Israel obviously has "superior" intelligence as they go on about it all the time.

But no they choose to bomb and kill indiscriminately without taking adequate steps to minimise civilian casualties.

As recently asserted by Biden, human rights organisations, etc etc.

I was referring to the part of your quote that said the IDF don't appear to be liars. Although I realise in the thrust of your quote you were referring to a particular headline. Sorry.

I dont think anyone would argue that. How would Hamas even have a uniform? Considering basic everyday items are blocked I really can't believe that Israel would allow in Hamas uniforms.

But regardless of uniform, you can see if someone is a woman or a child, no reasonable person can say shooting a woman or child is a case of mistaken Hamas identity.
Especially from the reports yesterday of the IDF shooting women and children at point blank range.

The majority of it has been indiscriminate killing.

Abso fucking lutely. The families are talking hunger strikes now; they feel that ignored by their government. I am 100% behind bringing all the hostages home. Hamas’ kidnapping them was a war crime and they need to be rescued.

Which can only be done in these circumstances by diplomacy and negotiations.

The “we don’t negotiate with terrorists” stance died 45yrs ago when we realised this hard line just kill them all approach causes unacceptable loss of innocent civilian lives. It was really only good for the 1970s spate of aeroplane hijackings where terrorists had very small demands and held a plane hostage at an airport. The whole area could be cleared and a perimeter made so you knew exactly where the terrorists were and the hostages were and there was literally no other human being in the area. Situations where a small special forces team can just pop in and take out an handful of terrorists.

The don’t negotiate and go in with force tactic scaled up, it’s not workable for a small army of terrorists hidden no one knows where with tons of civilians trapped in with them while being forced to play a deadly game of frogger to avoid being blasted by a bomb. It’s a giant game of Where’s Wally except Wally moves every two seconds along with everyone else.

Israel is using the wrong tactics for this type of hostage situation. As to why? Who knows?

This thread has nothing to do with the IDF lying, if I wanted to make a thread about that I really would have numerous ironclad examples to pick from.

The inclusion of the quote was regarding the fear previous hostages had about being killed by Israeli bombs and that this has occurred (albeit via gunshot and not bombs) I kept the full quote as i didnt think anyone would think this was to say Israel were lying about it being Hamas. Especially when I linked an article which clearly states this news was shared by an IDF spokesperson.

I understand this is a emotive topic and it is easy for people to interpret things differently but I hope this makes the matter clear for you.

Hamas did target people who are no threat.

They brutalized them and inflicted a deep physic wound on Israeli people and Jews the world over.

IDF faught back. They are killing people who are no threat. They are inflicting a deep physic would on Palestinians and Muslims the world over.

That's because they are not fighting a regular army.

No..

It is for revenge.

Special forces need to be sent in for Hamas.

This is to detroy the Palestinians and warm off anyone else who would think of trying

Nope.

They are fighting civillians.

It is clear even without any press to witness it.

Why won't they let the press in?

They are not fighting them. They are straight out indiscriminately slaughtering them. Unarmed innocent civilians in their tens of thousands.
Displacing, torturing, starving, erradicating.

Agreed.

They will also round up the men.

Thousands will taken prisoner.

Palestine does not have a military.

There is no hook or catch or attempt to smear IDF. It is not spin or propaganda to report the exact words of what an Israeli who was held hostage by Hamas said regarding their fears of IDF while being held hostage in Gaza. Your complaints are attempts to censor the voices of Israeli hostages. On a thread about Israeli hostages, you are literally trying to shut down what an Israeli who was one of the hostages until just weeks ago has publicly said to the world because you don’t like their tone. This is the time to listen to the released hostages, it is not the time to censor their words or censure them over their fears. You weren’t a hostage, so listen.

By the presence or absence of weapons, which tend to be very visible assault rifles or RPGs.

By physical appearance- elderly, child, disabled

By clothing- PRESS vest, Red Crescent/Red Cross shirt, medic scrubs, fighting age woman in an abaya not trousers, fighting age men in sandals and clothing that shows they are unarmed.

This isn’t the first war fought against an armed force that doesn’t wear uniforms.

Well said @Hellenika.

You might be out of step with pretty much every international humanitarian organisation, even the Pope, in accepting that awls actions to be collective punishment, illegal and even genocidal. It’s not a niche or unusual assessment, nor does one have to be a military strategists to listen to what humanitarian orgs and our own eyes are telling us.

The vast majority of the troops are reservists. These are poorly trained weekend warriors who were called up and it appears given no training while they were mustering. In addition, there has been a serious command failure. Early interviews by journalists of IDF soldiers at the start of the Gaza ground offensive included the soldiers saying things like “all the civilians have gone, so we know everyone here is the enemy” and “only Hamas is here” and so on. The soldiers must have had this drilled into them by their COs. The COs should have told their troops that not all the civilians did evacuate south, and that even if they had where Hamas is so are their people, the hostages they need to keep a lookout for and try to rescue. They should have given them rules of engagement like only shoot back without vID if you are under fire, if you see activity get a vID before you open fire because we know the hostages are here with Hamas. Instead they told soldiers that any human they see is a threat, is the enemy, is Hamas so of course soldiers are going to go in and shoot first and vID the dead bodies afterwards. I am sure the solider(s) who shot the three unarmed Israeli hostages are going to suffer for the rest of their lives from the trauma of accidentally killing them. But they should not blame themselves, it was clear from the start their COs were not properly training, briefing or giving the right for sort of ROEs for the operation.

*Isreal’s

Already hundreds have been rounded up, called out of the UNWRA shelters, taken from hospitals.

How would Hamas even have a uniform? Considering basic everyday items are blocked I really can't believe that Israel would allow in Hamas uniforms.

Aside from the black uniforms with the famous green headbands that they are sporting in the hostage handover videos?

And the idea that Hamas can't get stuff because Israel doesn't allow it in makes one wonder where all the guns and rockets come from.

They don't wear uniforms because they don't want to be distinguishable from civilians.