IDF shoot hostages in Gaza after 'mistakenly identifying them as a threat'

[Struggggggling]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/idf-kill-israeli-hostages-mistakenly-identifying-hamas-gaza/

Previous hostages warned this would happen, tragic events. There is no winner in this conflict only losers.

Do you think Israel will now change tactics or if any histage swaps will take priority?

This is a set at Boom festival in Portugal, the biggest psytrance festival in Europe, attracting people from ~150 countries. Nova was Israel's Boom.

It's very different from the big commercial festivals you might be familiar with.

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Right. And now I will shut up!

Thats what sort of fuels my anger, the way people were living squashed all together in Gaza before all this started. Looking at it from google earth, the contrast between Gaza and Israel is huge.
The unfairness is too much.

Oh gosh yes, absolutely. Honestly, despite my background in this "scene" my first thought was "Well that was asking for trouble having a party on land that is, at least, saturated with pain." How dare they flaunt their privilege, etc.

I don't know if Gazans were present (but I doubt; does their culture permit it?), but they would have been welcome +++++.

There's a short video here with the festival producers answering questions about the location. It's been used for many events such as a Genesis gig and no one had any doubts about the safety.

Here, they return to the site, where the "lost and found" section brings back reminders of the Holocaust. They bless the scene, and have set up a kind of survivors crisis centre to try and help people come to terms with the loss of friends, limbs, etc. At the end, they mention the dance track that had to be stopped when Hamas descended, and their ambition to fill another dance floor one day and pick up that track where it left off.

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The BBC have interviewed seven men who were detained and who said they were tortured by the IDF
Further disturbing proof of not following international humanatarian law
This is one of their stories

Another of the men I met, Mahmoud Abu Husein, 62, also from northern Gaza, said Israeli soldiers shot him in the leg.
"They told me… you need to find out for us where Hamas is and where the hostages are,” he said. "When I told them I didn't know, they shot my leg. Afterwards, they amputated my leg.”
Husein said he was also made to sign a paper saying his leg "was not functioning".

Not sure why the link didn't work
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A Russian strikes up a conversation with Ukrainians in a shop and you all become BFF ?
There is a deep seated hatred for what Russia is doing to Ukraine, though i guess its possible you met pro separatist ones, which why i said doubt not lie.

As for music festivals, would be great if Palestinians had access to entertainment, food, education and money, maybe they should start at "right to life" ?

I wonder what facilities there are in Gaza to find missing relatives, limbs & memorials.

The Gazans are treated like crap by the IDF
At times even worse than animals. The BBC report was sickening to read

How far from reality does one have to be, there's people here who are struggling to find food to survive on

And another man also reported by the BBC

One of the them, Mohammed Dawood, said he was detained for 26 days after he followed Israel's order to move further south within the enclave.
During this journey, he said: "They (IDF) captured us... They interrogated us. Are you Hamas? Are you Islamic Jihad?"
While in Israeli detention, he said: "I was tied up and my eyes were blindfolded like all the other men," he told me. "They abused us, spat on us and disrespected us. We were all beaten."

Yes.

Believe it or not, it is possible to move through life without deep-seated hatred towards anyone.

We are not our governments. We have minds and hearts of our own.

No, they are not pro-separatist. They're just nice people, and so are we. That simplifies things a lot.

And yes, if only Gazans had a better quality of life. Why is no one blaming Hamas?

There are serious concerns with the treatment of people detained by the IDF. I think there was something in the Guardian earlier about it being routine to keep them blindfolded and handcuffed all day, also, which doesn't sound normal. I don't know if the BBC reports can lead to further investigation, or who would carry that out.

@stormy4319trevor it seems difficult to do right now but there has been many documented reports of a similar nature.
There's also Gazans who have been arrested and gone missing and now nobody knows anything about them
If they are even alive or not

Yes, where are all these missing people?

There are calls for an investigation into at least six Palestinians who have died in Israeli captivity. Maybe in The Guardian. I noticed the Israeli commander called them "terrorists" who had died. Detained, killed and labelled a terrorist without any kind of trial.

I'd be pretty sure that if Gazans struggle to get Israeli permission to cross the border for medical appointments they probably wouldn't get permission to go to a rave. Surely you realise that they don't have freedom of movement and don't enjoy many of the rights and freedoms that Israelis do. And if you don't realise that you should go away and do a bit of research on the situation.

Also your often repeated insistence that what happened to the Israelis during the Hamas attack is infinitely worse than what's been happening to the Gazans for the past two months is very offensive and minimising. The first time you said it you said you were drunk but presumably you're not always drunk and you're here saying it again.

I can't link to it so C&P from Guardian and link to other article
"The Israeli army has said it is investigating the deaths of Palestinian detainees who were arrested in military operations across the Gaza Strip.
At least six Palestinians have died in Israeli prisons or Israel Defense Forces (IDF) detention facilities since the start of the war, Haaretz reported.
The Israeli newspaper said several Palestinians had died after being held at the Sde Teiman base near the city of Be’er Sheva, in southern Israel. Hundreds of Palestinians have been held for weeks at the facility, it said, where detainees are “blindfolded and handcuffed for most of the day”.
An Israeli army spokesperson told AFP on Tuesday:
We know of deaths of terrorists in military detention centres and they are under investigation."

@Silence1 I really hope so. 6 people dying in detention is pretty concerning, and it should be investigated as soon as possible.

Thanks @Silence1 I think there should be an independent investigation really. I see you also found the part about being handcuffed and blindfolded most of the day, which concerned me when I read it earlier, as I would have thought that violates basic treatment of detainees.

On 7 October, 18,500 Gazans had work permits to work in Israel.

With respect, I think we are measuring "infinitely worse" in different ways.

Thanks for asking, but no, I'm not always drunk. And I don't care what you think of me for being drunk the other night.

What do the work permits have to do with the lack of freedom of movement of Gazans? There's over 2million of them.

And yes, if only Gazans had a better quality of life. Why is no one blaming Hamas?

I ve consistently blamed Hamas.

BUT imho Israel is behaving little better and are sowing seeds of further hatred and terrorism for decades to come.

Israel cannot undo the 7th October but it has the choice to behave differently in Gaza, using more surgical intelligence led strikes, why? because 2m Palestinians will still be living next to Israel after this is over, unless the aim is to bomb them into Egypt?

If you really are a genuinely "nice person" you would support a more considered approach, the murder of Palestinian children by the IDF is a stain on us all, esp those who justify this with "Hamas and October 7th"

How do you know the strikes are not directed by intelligence information?

Re the trapped Gazans, they could have come in by paraglider and peacefully joined in the festival, thus demonstrating that Israel had no need for apparently Draconian security measures. Instead of which, they and the hordes of civilians who swarmed in that day did something rather special.

@Pizdietz err 20k Palestinian deaths, inside 3 months & that the US is saying Israel must move to a more surgical mode of operation in the future, so they aren't doing it now are they.

I get you think the Palestinians should be collectively punished for the actions of Hamas but this war will end and the Palestinians will still be in Gaza, they'll be in the West Bank, Iran will be there and their allies too.

Israel will have to live alongside these people, whether they like it or not.

Shame they hadn't viewed the dead dog's camera earlier

"Video shows prior escape of Israeli captives mistakenly killed by Israeli soldiersThe three Israeli captives, who were mistakenly shot dead recently by two Israeli soldiers, had been able to escape from captivity after another group of Israeli troops killed their captors just five days earlier.
That is according to video footage that was recovered from an Israeli military dog recorded on December 10 in the Gaza City neighbourhood of Shujayea that was only analysed on December 18, three days after the killings, according to the Israeli daily Haaretz.
The camera attached to the dog that was killed in the shootout recorded the three captives escaping the area once they saw that their Hamas guards had been killed by the Israeli army.
Al Jazeera’s Bernard Smith, reporting from Tel Aviv, said the Israeli authorities have reopened the investigation into the killings of the captives.
“The captives were alive for five days, presumably hiding somewhere there in northern Gaza until they felt it was time to come out and wave that white flag but as soon as they did that, they were shot dead,” he said."

@Silence1 absolute shame the camera footage wasn't reviewed promptly