Horrors of violence towards women on October the 7th suppressed

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67613153

It looks like the UN may have been reluctant to investigate or highlight the sickening sexual violence committed on October 7th. It also appears some of the hostages may have been abused.

Was this because the horrendous violence doesn't fit in with that purely Palestinians are victims of this ongoing conflict? Are investigations into these crimes because women are viewed as second class citizens or the revelations 'muddy the waters' where some just want to see one side as the victim.

I should imagine that one reason this was not amplified in the press earlier was the female hostages. Also dignity of the victims, be they alive or dead, they deserve dignity.

Nobody is denying sexual abuse took place, it would be very unlikely that it didn't. We don't need to see evidence, we certainly don't need to share any dodgy videos, the press don't need to see evidence. An independent investigating body does need to see the evidence.

57 news reports saying the same thing does not mean it is true, it means they have been exposed to the same propaganda / truth / lies. A dignified independent investigation will preserve these women's dignity and hopefully uncover the truth. It will take far too long because these things always do.

Is there a different opinion of whether rape is ok?

There are independent experts who examined dead bodies, first responders, the women themselves, witnesses of the rape. You have differing 'opinion" to them! A differing opinion to rape?

Some of us are shocked that women have stayed silent, women's group have stayed silent and people like you want what exactly..... you don't like facts? We won't forget these victims of vile, barbaric rape.

The minimising, denial whataboutery, changing subject happens all the time.

57 news reports saying the same thing does not mean it is true, it means they have been exposed to the same propaganda / truth / lies

From the BBC article:
"The BBC has seen and heard evidence of rape, sexual violence and mutilation of women during the 7 October Hamas attacks."

“Videos of naked and bloodied women filmed by Hamas on the day of the attack, and photographs of bodies taken at the sites afterwards, suggest that women were sexually targeted by their attackers.”

"..told us they had seen multiple signs of sexual assault, including broken pelvises, bruises, cuts and tears, and that the victims ranged from children and teenagers to pensioners.”

Seen and heard. Is that enough for the doubters yet?

No a differing opinion on the premise of the OP
It looks like the UN may have been reluctant to investigate or highlight the sickening sexual violence committed on October 7th.

My opinion is that I do not agree that the UN has been reluctant, nor that the reality of rape as a weapon of war has been suppressed or silenced any more than it usually is. I do not agree with the “me too unless you’re a Jew” comments at all as it seems to erase the victims and hostages of Hamas that were/are not Jewish.

I know rape as a universal weapon of war was used by Hamas on Israeli Jewish, Israeli Christian, Israeli Muslim and Foreign National women and girls on October 7th the same for the ongoing sexual violence Hamas is most likely doing to female hostages from the same demographics above.

This is based on comparative analysis to similar armed conflicts both in the recent past and currently ongoing. I have observed that rape is a universal weapon of war and it is always minimised and sidelined. The fact this is happening again, is not new nor is it especial to Israeli Jewish women.

There have been no armed forces or armed conflicts without rape being used as a weapon of war by all sides. None.

It is not acceptable rape happens, as my earlier posts have expressed at length, but this is the world we live in, not the world we should have and this disregard by men in power for rape is deeply engrained misogyny that is part and parcel of the reality of sex based oppression of women. All women. Not just Jewish women.

Likewise it is not just terrorists that use rape as a weapon of war. All armed forces whether armies or terrorists or what have you use it. All of them. Because men want to and they don’t want to change.

Sometimes yes and Sometimes no

In the case of torture and rape I would say it isn't really a lets compare or compete to see who has been abuse and violent more. Therefore a stand alone thread for different situations seems more respectful

However carry on as you were. I am not the boss of threads

If you know as much about rape in war as you are making out you will also know that there’s a vast difference in different conflicts as to the degree to which rape is used as a deliberate weapon, the scale and brutality of the rapes. You would be hard put to find an army with no rapists in it but no it is not the case that what Hamas did on October 7th happens in every conflict and is the same with every army or terrorist group. Your ‘oh well this always happens’ posts are dismissive of this particular atrocity and they are wrong.

Oh, I absolutely agree with, especially your last paragraph. I'm very upset that it's been diminished, as my previous posts hopefully convey.

Absolutely disgusting.

Has there been any other terrorist attack or war where pictures and videos of acts of rape and sexual violence (including pictures of torn vulvas and anuses I’m assuming) are needed for sick fucks to believe they took place?

Can anyone think of one?

Wtf am I reading?! There is a genocide taking place! I may have missed those threads - but we need to stop the ethnic cleansing of a nation! And how can people be horrified at the apparent rapes that haven't been documented properly as of yet - but aren't horrified at the absolutely shocking images that are being blasted across from Gaza! Bodies with no heads, hands blown off, brains splattered on the road, children with holes in thier legs, dead bodies being put into a mass grave! A nation is being wiped out - they ent gaza gone and its inhabitants. How is this different from the holocaust?!!!!

Well, this is true the scale differs, but that’s more about how long a conflict goes on for and other factors like how many armed men are involved. Hamas only had a few hours and there were not that many of them, so the absolute count of victims will be much smaller than the vast majority of armed conflicts. It doesn’t make it lesser than what other women have suffered at all. That’s my argument, that is is nonsense to try and say that some armies are nicer rapists than others. When you compare on a woman to woman basis, when you remember them as individuals and not statistics, it’s not correct to say oh these raping armed men were nicer than those raping armed men.

I don’t understand why you are saying this is being dismissive of an atrocity? I am literally not counting up bodies and going it’s not as bad. I am saying it is just as bad. You seem to be arguing what Hamas did was worse than usual. It really isn’t. I mean, have you ever worked with the lucky few surviving rape victims from war torn countries? Listened to them when they recount what happened? Seen their injuries and permanent scars/mutilations?

If you want to argue the war crime Hamas did is somehow extraordinary, I would advise caution with that approach. There are endless examples of weaponised rape used on a bigger scale and characterised by just as much brutality.

I don’t think it is right for you to imply certain women had it worse than other women as I don’t think that is fair to the victims with your “there is a vast difference” comment. There is no difference on the individual basis for each woman raped and killed or raped but survives. You are implying it was somehow worse for victims of Hamas than it was for other rape victims of other armed men. Why is this?

Because most people can think or be horrified or talk about more than one thing at once

Hence why there are numerous threads on different subjects on the conflict board

There are plenty of other threads where you can post about that, @SunsetOnTheHorizon
This thread is about the sexual violence element of the 7 October attacks though.

Apparently someone hasn't watched the videos Hamas filmed themselves during the pogrom

They definitely haven't watched the live stream recordings that Hamas made

Give us strength

Could do but that wouldn't be as fun as spamming this thread apparently

The gaslighting has sunk to new depths, tonight.

Unfortunately, a weapon.

My job role included working with refugee Syrian women and families. The Home Office shared the background files, for each family.

Truly, horrific details of rape and sexual violence. I couldn't finish reading the details of what the women, children and babies had gone through.

We only share details on a need to know basis, but I can remember saying to my staff, think of the worst things possible and times by a 1000.

Sickening, unimaginable horror, I can't even start to share, even anonymously.

Yep. Of course it is

What does that have to do with the OP?

If you want to know WTF you're reading, you could read the thread title 🤷🏻‍♀️

Apparently the House of Lords has called out the sexual abuse and rapes by Hamas before many women's groups

This is the world we live in now!

https://twitter.com/nicolelampert/status/1732019776296292824/mediaviewer

Do you assume every rape victim is lying?

The UN held a special session a day ago on the violence on women carried out on 7th October.

The representative talks of the video footage she has seen. Listen to what she says, the emotion in her voice when she saw the evidence, then pause and think of the victims, many dead now. Maybe reflect on what you say.

I believe women, do you?

I think to the majority of people the amount of evidence about these events is unquestionable and we should now be asking the question about why these horrendous crimes weren't initially highlighted. I am glad the BBC are now reporting the rape but I do question the caveat that the events have 'not been independently verified'. We can be certain that bombs have been released over Gaza and there is no independent verification needed there so why the need here where the evidence is so substantial that it stands as clearly evident?

I think there was a down playing by the U.N. of the nature of the brutality and a tardiness of the press to pick up on it as there was a fear of upsetting pro Palestinian supporters and being accused of political bias which in itself was shameful. I think there may be elements in the press that do not want to be associated with 'Pro Israel' bias (please note the inverted commas) so have been slow to report on this really quite macabre inhumanity.

It is good to have a space to debate such as this (or at least show collective disgust) and I think to that extent we need to focus on this. (original thread title).