Horrors of violence towards women on October the 7th suppressed

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67613153

It looks like the UN may have been reluctant to investigate or highlight the sickening sexual violence committed on October 7th. It also appears some of the hostages may have been abused.

Was this because the horrendous violence doesn't fit in with that purely Palestinians are victims of this ongoing conflict? Are investigations into these crimes because women are viewed as second class citizens or the revelations 'muddy the waters' where some just want to see one side as the victim.

Because if your answer is yes, then do you condemn the rape of Palestinian women at the hands of the idf soldiers?

I mean... obviously yes? However that isn't the the topic of this particular thread.

@Anotherdayanotherdiet I was being sarcastic as in that's what you are expecting of Israel.

There is no what about in any of my posts.

I disagree that there has been any suppression or minimisation above and beyond the usual amount seen regarding rape as a universal weapon of war. That’s been the opinion I have expressed in all my posts.

Nobody has disputed claims that Palestinian women have been raped.

@Anotherdayanotherdiet I was being sarcastic as in that's what you are expecting of Israel

I don’t think you’ve responded to any of my recent posts. Have you got me confused with someone else?

To answer whether the rape of Israeli and foreign National women by Hamas on Oct 7th is being unduly suppressed or minimised, you have to compare this event to other events where rape was used as a weapon of war, right? You cannot say yea or nay in a vacuum. You must look at how reports of rape were handled in other similar circumstances. That’s not whataboutery that’s called comparative analysis.

More about the brutal rapes and mutilation.

www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181

Then a few posts down we’ve got
“can you link to 'thousands of women make that complaint about the IDF' please? Verify it for me with individual accounts and footage? Or just the headcam worn by the IDF soldiers will be ok”

And I guess we’re not meant to notice they contradict each other.

That's what you said....

I was being sarcastic...

What evidence has there been ever been that the IDF rape Palestinian women/prisoners as an accepted government practice?

Physical/medical evidence? Video evidence? Witnesses?

I remember reading that an IDF soldier was rightly jailed for raping a Palestinian woman though.

How can you conflate that with the medical /post mortem, video and witness reports of the rape and sexual torture of Israeli women on October 7th. Most of the victims can’t report it word of mouth because they’re dead!

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians

@WilmaWonka No, I think the point is that some posters feel we should believe women who say they were sexually assaulted/raped. Palestinian women released from prison in the hostage exchanges did make this claim, so the point is they should be believed. Personally I take claims of sexual violence seriously, whoever raises them, but I do not just believe them without independent investigations and other evidence.

You're contradicting yourself and you don't even see it.

@Depdawg What do you mean? It's possible, I'm rather tired,

This whole thing has destroyed my faith in groups like Amnesty and most activist groups. It is apparent now that their political ideology is totally driven by social media manipulation. Amnesty et al are morally bankrupt.

I’m not given to conspiracy theories but it is slightly terrifying how quickly people’s beliefs can be manipulated by clever online influencing.

I wonder what we’ll all be taught to believe next. It’s all a touch 1984.

You say you take claims of sexual assault very seriously.
You're not very convincing, I'm afraid.

I honestly don't understand - do you not think Hamas and their friends raped anyone on 7th October? Despite the videos and photos of dead women with their underwear removed, some with bullets and daggers up their vagina? What evidence would you accept, bearing in mind the victims are dead and the perpetrators are hiding out in tunnels underneath Gaza? Eyewitness testimonies clearly aren't enough for you either. What other proof do you think should be provided?

@Depdawg Taking claims seriously means independent investigation. That's the usual procedure in my country, don't know about yours.

@stormy4319trevor did you link to the threads about it? Especially those pre 7/10?

All rape should be investigated and taken seriously. It is the fact that western women’s group who would usually be pushing for support for victims are totally silent that is sickening.

It seems some rapes don’t matter.

I haven't seen this footage. I have heard the contents of the footage shown to journalists and it did not include this, though there could be many reasons for that. I would hope the UN or a team of international experts can look at the evidence with the Israelis to build a picture. I imagine there is forensic evidence which can be analysed also. I don't use or believe items on X or instagram. I suppose I'll be waiting for the Panorama report, or similar. I do know people were murdered in brutal ways, but I don't feel I have all the details yet. I think a thorough investigation is very important for the victims, and to catch the perpetrators.

@stomachameleon I'm really tired, I thought you knew the Save the Children report has been mentioned many times on here, and in the media and is easy to find online. The detainees, truce and agreements thread mentioned the women released from prison and alleging sexual violence. Sorry, don't know how to link.

@stormy4319trevor here you go:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67629181

The perpetrators are Hamas and by the looks of it, some Gazan civilians that joined in. The IDF have been liquidating any they can identify.

@Docmcstuffins2020 as I'd imainge Israel is unlikely to release the actual images of mulitated genitalia, the descriptions of the findings and witnesses will have to do.
I don't recall ever seeing footage and imagery of people's violations and injuries in any rape cases, though, so perhaps it is only Israel who is expected to reviolate their victims in this way?

I know you're being incredibly insincere, which is an inappropriate decision you've made there considering the topic we're discussing, but these videos and photos were being shared on here not too many weeks ago. I won't personally share videos because it feels disrespectful to the victims and that has been my stance all along. The UN and news outlets will have presumably been sent them, yes, which will be why some of them are finally deciding to condemn Hamas' actions. The footage might even have been part of what was shown to journalists in Israel, the showings where people left the room and threw up because of the horrors they'd just seen.

Why would there be evidence of rape at a music festival in Israel in a hospital in Gaza? What a weird thing to suggest. The videos that are circulating were obviously from where the raping and slaughter of innocent civilians occurred, not from a hospital basement in Gaza.