“Pause” ends tomorrow. Anyone else filled with dread ?

[Desertrose2023]

Just that really. I’ve felt such relief the past couple of days that my phone won’t be filled with a constant stream of murdered Palestinian kids and wailing parents. That all ends tomorrow and I have such a sense of foreboding even though I’m safe and comfortable thousands of miles away. I can’t begin to imagine the dread the Palestinians in Gaza must be feeling tonight knowing their genocide resumes tomorrow. When will it end 😞

What do you suggest Israel does?

From Norway

Failure of our shared humanity' in Gaza, says Norwegian Refugee Council
The "pulverising" of the Gaza Strip now ranks "among the worst assaults on any civilian population in our time and age", the head of the Norwegian Refugee Council (NRC) has said.
"Each day we see more dead children and new depths of suffering for the innocent people enduring this hell," says Jan Egeland, NRC's secretary general.
He says that 1.9 million people - almost the entire Gaza population - have been displaced and that nearly two-thirds of homes have been destroyed.

@Parkingt111 Horrific. And some people dare to continually ask why we are making a noise about it!

Peace for all Israeli and Palestinian civilians now. Ceasefire now. Human rights for all.

"Baying crowd" is not a term I'd associate with you using @Stomacharmeleon - or even the implication that all Palestinians in Gaza are involved in armed conflict.....

Gaza or the west bank* are all involved in armed conflict

Really? All?

You won't get disemboweled or hung up by a baying mob.

You think this is par for the course in Gaza and the West Bank? 🤦🏽‍♀️

I Don't. (Think it's par for the course although it's happened recently)

Apologies. (And I meant the West Bank) regarding conflict more by way of explanation not Gaza)

The sexual violence thread is getting to me.

Listen I do try and think about what I post and have a considered response to most things but I do have family there.
It's difficult sometimes.

@stomachameleon Listen I do try and think about what I post and have a considered response to most things but I do have family there.
It's difficult sometimes.

I agree you do, and I can empathise with personal involvement making things more difficult to handle. I've had to unfollow a lot of threads for the same reason.

At this point were both trying to point score and we're clearly not going to agree or alter each other's viewpoint,

I didn't suggest the Palestinian people had 'more' right to it, I'm aware that historically you'll find both Palestinian and Jewish in the ancient Canaanite population and that prior to Israels creation Muslims, Jews and Christians lived relatively peacefully. However, citing ancient connections to a land does not and should not have given the justification for the ethnic cleansing and massacres of 1948 or the creation of Israel at the expense of the people who had been living their for generations.

I continue to believe it is a system of Apartheid, if your response is that they are not Israeli citizens we should be asking whether this is easy, whether Israel approves all applications, what is their criteria and what is asked of the Palestinians to get it.

Ultimately I have a long list of deeply uncomfortable things about Israel that I think im unlikely to shift on;

Violence and murder in the west bank, including of children.

Arresting and holding without trial thousands of Palestinians - including children as young as 12 - many of who have spoken of torture and sexual abuse.

The blockade on movement of goods in and out of Gaza despite 'leaving'

The control of a significant amount of electricity and water into gaza

Removal and restrictions of fishing rights

Settler violence against Palestinians

Skinbanks/organ harvesting

Theft of homes, sometimes 'fully furnished' from Palestinians

And in recent weeks the withholding of aid whilst people starve on the other side of a fence.

The IDF forcing medical staff to leave patients at gunpoint for their bodies to be found weeks later having died alone and in pain.

All of the above paint a picture of a deeply cruel, nationalistic and racist regime that won't be satisfied until it's ethnically cleansed the remaining Palestinians.

I suppose, the only thing I can ever think to ask people to think about very carefully is if you were a Palestinian, having been born in say 1960 and experienced life in the West Bank along with a selection of my above list how would you feel? Would you believe Israel is acting fairly? Or would there be an uncomfortable moment where you see the actions of Israel differently?

@ChickHenLittle once again I apologise. I really don't want to upset or offend.

@Wale90 let's agree to disagree.
I am not saying there aren't things on that list that I Don't have an issue with.

I have an issue with the whole genocide thing. Palestinian 1948... 160,000 Palestinians now.... 2 million.

I am always willing to look again at things and consider other views because If we can't what's the point?

Dresden the whole damn lot of them -spare no one, men, women, children the guilty and the innocent until they become murderous dogs and turn on their masters. That's what this Rabbi says. https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/381475 Palestians the untermensch.

@twilightmoon3 that's not very helpful. There are extremists both sides and they have to be handled. He very much does not reflect all Israelis as I imagine those that preach death to all Jews don't reflect all in Palestine.

I had to look up what Israel National News is and it is apparently the voice of the settler movement and Israel's 3rd most popular newspaper so it is a mainstream Israeli voice and not some fringe rag. The fact they feel happy to print such a toxic op-ed is probably symptomatic of what Netanhayu supporters on the whole are comfortable with and indeed the pitiless relentless bombing of Gaza bears that out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arutz_Sheva#

@twilightmoon3 honestly I don't see it like that. They print lots of opinion pieces not just one sided and most 'rags' in Israel do. Lots of normal people will be horrified by that.

I am not minimising I am saying it's a country where it's ok to do that. We do it. Owen jones? Netanyahu does not have lots of support. They will be a change.

At the state of play at the moment neither side is making rational decisions. Especially for the good of normal people.

Good to hear we need to increase the peace for everybody's sakes. War gamers always like to surmise that armageddon will start in the Middle East and it's easy to map out a way that that could happen, particularly if Iran gets nukes and Trump returns both scenarios which have a relatively high chance of happening.

@twilightmoon3 it's very worrying I agree.

When 9/11 happened (the equivalent of what Hamas did to Israel) the US took action. Unless democracies take action in these kinds of situations we will be walked all over. I stand with Israel on this. War is awful but has to be done at times for the greater good, to preserve the rights of us all to our democracies and rights. in a sense Israel and Ukraine are the front line of Western rights at present and if they we will be next with dictatorships with Putin's and North Korea's and theocracies like Iran and Saudi and Afghanistan imposed on us.

Good comparison

when 9/11. Happened USA / uk and Spain went together to Iraq in the search of war weapons. I was in Spain at the time. I did go to demonstrations against this war.

Years later and thousand of innocent lives have been taken and guess what. There were no mass destruction weapons.

so maybe , on this one the comparison is not the best unless you’re trying to say this war is wrong and shouldn’t be happening.

“War is awful but has to be done at times for the greater good”

this is a selfish statement. It might be for your good. Not for Palestinians good. Your life is not worth more than anyone who is dying because of this war.

“I stand with Israel on this. “

I stand with innocent citizens who are dying day after day regardless of their nationality or religion.

Clearly you don’t know the history of America’s shit show of a ‘war on terror’ if you’re actually referencing it as an example of war being done for the greater good!

Millions of deaths, millions of people displaced, countless buildings and infrastructure destroyed, trillions of dollars spent, agricultural land ruined, orphans, illness, disease, malnutrition. And after 20 years and a shambles of a withdrawal, the Taliban, the regime they toppled, is back in power again! Yes congratulations America on a job well done!

Oh and they never did find those weapons of mass destruction did they?

You might want to rethink using America’s war as a shining example.

If anything, it shows that we need to find another way, rather than just trying to pulverise people into submission.

Thank you @Ixxy1980

I stand with innocent citizens who are dying day after day regardless of their nationality or religion

The only people who would actually disagree with this statement in this situation are Hamas.

not really. There is people on mn who will tell you that Palestinians deserve this because they all are terrorists or support terrorists and they voted them 17 years ago. There is also people that will tell you they stand with Israel (forgetting about the citizens from the other country). So not only Hamas.

You're aware that the Ukraine is Gaza and Israel is Russia in the comparison you make.

Russia / Israel = invaders, oppressors, occupiers
Ukraine / Gaza = resistance, occupied

What you mean is that western values and white victims are more import than Arab ones.

I mean come on - tunnels dug under civilians' homes! Poor Gazans.
"'To be honest it's quite upsetting to see but the responsibility for that is Hamas. They planned the battlefield by digging tunnels underneath the civilian population."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12836551/Its-apocalyptic-Hamas-dug-tunnels-civilians-Inside-Israeli-artillery-unit-hitting-Gaza-Strip-IDF-close-terror-leaders-home.html

What you mean is that western values and white victims are more import than Arab ones

@Wale90 you do release that most people in Israel aren't 'white victims' don't you?