“Pause” ends tomorrow. Anyone else filled with dread ?

[Desertrose2023]

Just that really. I’ve felt such relief the past couple of days that my phone won’t be filled with a constant stream of murdered Palestinian kids and wailing parents. That all ends tomorrow and I have such a sense of foreboding even though I’m safe and comfortable thousands of miles away. I can’t begin to imagine the dread the Palestinians in Gaza must be feeling tonight knowing their genocide resumes tomorrow. When will it end 😞

@Toothyfruity @Chaitales @Wale90 makes sense, thank you all.

I realise there are very very very different views of this so am glad mumsnetters continue to discuss the issue even though we are utterly opposed to the positions of others. Israel is a modern democracy along the lines of the US and UK and is our friend in the UK. Hamas is an appalling terrorist organisation and Israel which has right on its side has a right to protect itself.

Sorry @Xenia Israel is not a democracy. Democracies don't oppress millions of the population on the basis of their race.

Israel is an apartheid regime not a democracy.

Democracies don't beat their citizens for protesting against their governments...

@Wale90 exactly.

James Elder UNICEF spokesman in Gaza - it's now a genocide pure and simple. But Hamas....

https://twitter.com/1james_elder/status/1731367196960444427

@twilightmoon3 and the former chief prosecutor of the ICC, agrees it's clear cut case of genocide.

A total horror show.

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/12/03/unicef-james-elder-gaza-hospital-children-israel-safe-zone-intl-cnntmw-vpx.cnn

No, they hang them in Gaza. Publicly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CapitalpunishmenttintheeGaza_Strip

@Pennina nobody is disputing that Gaza is not a democracy. We are pointing out that Israel is NOT a democracy, despite presenting itself as one.

Israel is not a democracy, it is a documented apartheid state.

It would be interesting to hear you're prospective - you keep repeating this line "Israel is a democracy" but without any analysis or qualifiers - do you want to expand on why you believe this?

@Chaitales I don't think some posters really have an intention in engaging in actual debate or providing evidence. Simply repeating the same thing over and over on lots of threads, comments bearing little relevance to the original thread.

And disembowel them....

@paladium England has been described as 'perfidious Albion'. Just because something is documented doesn't make it fact.

@Stomacharmeleon I think I will trust Amnesty et al over some random on the internet but thank you. And I reject your inevitable smear of all human rights organisations.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-a-cruel-system-of-domination-and-a-crime-against-humanity/

Democracy as in
Multi party system
Allows regular elections
Rule of law that allows citizens to participate. All citizens (see knesset)

Democracy.

@paladium no smear but it's an opinion not a fact.

@Stomacharmeleon as is your opinion, just that.

Democracy. Not perfect but a democracy.

@paladium you said people weren't engaging and you wanted facts and I gave them to you. Or by facts do you mean emotive drivel on twitter. Oh and opinion pieces.

Just to clarify.

Gideon Levy a brilliant Israeli humanitarian and journalist writes another piece for Haaretz. One has to hope his views and support is growing in Israel at least some are trying to stop this madness.

The Gaza Strip has been punished enough, far more than it deserves. Its northern section has been destroyed; 20,000 of its sons and daughters have been killed; 5,000 children have died. Even if the IDF’s estimate that it killed 5,000 Hamas combatants is correct, the proportions are horrific. In Ukraine, people would be appalled by such proportions.

Is it really permissible to kill 20,000 people, including 5,000 children, in order to kill 5,000 combatants/terrorists/people involved in the fighting/armed men, however monstrous they are? And would 100,000 civilians also be permissible? A million? “As many as necessary” is the usual response, and it is patently immoral and unacceptable.

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-11-30/ty-article-opinion/.premium/how-many-palestinians-dead-in-gaza-is-too-many/0000018c-1c99-db78-adcc-befde3500000?utm_source=App_Share&utm_medium=Twitter

But we're not claiming hamas are moral or democratic or anything other than a terrorist group, but Israel claims to be both moral and democratic but are by definition a terrorist state right now.

Hamas have no future governing the Palestinian people but the genocide and ethnic cleansing taking place at the hands of Israel under the guise of eradicating them is so easy to see through. They want the land, they want it free of Palestinians...

@Wale90 do you know what democratic means? Why is Israel not democratic?

You cannot be both democratic and operate a system of Apartheid. What you mean is that Israel is a democracy for Israelis (and even then, the state sanctioned violence against citizens protesting is putting them on shakey ground). But it is not a democracy for the Palestinians living in it despite it being their ancestral homeland.

"Palestinians living in the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem (80% of the Palestinian population) under Israeli control are not citizens and cannot become citizens of the state in which they live, nor can they vote for the government which controls their lives. The other 20% of Palestinians, who have Israeli citizenship, have a 2nd class status."

The very 'non bias' people's dispatch...
It's no more 'their ancestral land' than it is for the Jewish population.
How far back do you want to go?

And I don't believe ifs an apartheid state.
The Palestinians living in the West Bank are not Israeli citizens so do not have the right to enjoy the rights of being one. As the Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank are involved in armed conflict and don't recognise Israel as an entity they are treated by the terms of the law of the armed conflict.

The Israeli Arabs living in Israel enjoy all the freedoms of an Israeli citizen. They have ten members in the Knesset. Can form a political party, join the police, the judiciary, the diplomatic core. An anathema to an apartheid state as no racial discrimination. If it was then all Arabs would be treated the same and yet they are not. They are divided by their actions towards the Israeli state.

Do you know anyone living in Israel? Being openly politically critical is not a problem- look at the hostages walking on Netanyahu's home and critical newspapers. You won't get disemboweled or hung up by a baying mob.

Maybe your mixing up areas?