Detainees, Truce and Agreements *title altered at OP's request*

[stormy4319trevor]

Continuing broad discussion of the release of detainees, hostages and prisoners and the agreements around this.

I have just seen this update regarding the negotiations from the Israeli side

Ceasefire discussions
On the Egyptian claim that Cairo has tabled a proposal that would end the war, Mr Regev says his government is in contact with counterparts in the country.
"We've got good contacts with the Egyptians and with the Americans and we're talking to the Qataris as well," he says.
"Anything that can create a situation where we can get our hostages out... we're open to that," he adds, but caveats that Israel will still maintain its objective to "destroy Hamas's military machine".

Brilliant, not one sided either. United together

@Parkingt111 not massively positive is it?

Really setting my expectations low atm

And then this

Hamas 'ready in principle' to resume talks over hostage release, Qatar tells Israel - report

Qatari mediators have told Israel that Hamas has “agreed in principle” to resume talks on the release of further hostages held in Gaza in exchange for a weeks-long pause in fighting, according to a report.

Citing three Israeli officials, Israel’s Walla news outlet is reporting that the Qatari mediators have conveyed a message to Israel that Hamas “agrees in principle” to return to the negotiating table to try to reach a deal.

Yes there isn't. I am also finding Netanyahu's refusal to discuss the day after very concerning. I wouldn't be suprised if the US is frustrated by this too
One thing I don't understand is how does the finance minister hold authority to withhold funds. Surely Netanyahu gets the final say?

Hmm not very positive. Israel needs to bring or agree to a long term workable plan. If Hamas are on the negotiating table and all they are going to say is we want our hostages but still going to continue with what we are doing to destroy you then I don't think they are likely to agree.

@Parkingt111 IDK doesn't Smot..... [sp] power lie in his ability to break the coalition if he doesn't get his own way? Rather than his role itself

One small positive is that Israel and Hamas are both back at the negotiating table

Cf a month ago when they both flounced off after the ceasefire broke down

So a small but important bit of progress

Yes, I wonder if the ICJ can do anything and what the process will be to stop the killing of civilians.

The Israeli Government is a lost cause at this point. This move is squarely aimed at pressuring America. There are provisions in the Statute to charge anyone who assisted in the Genocide. Can you imagine the Biden administration being charged in an election year.

The ICJ does have teeth to "enforce" a sanction, however by the time a case is listed & tried without a ceasefire Gaza and the Gazans will be destroyed.

So it is a geopolitical chess game right now. Did you know that 2 of the UN security Council motions were raised by Brazil and Russia, both members of the BRICS alliance. Guess who another member is? South Africa. So they've obviously been coordinating.

America needs to decide if losing it's influence on the World stage is worth it. And seeing as China is Americas diplomatic successor, they're in a geopolitical pickle, rightly so.

@BelleHathor Oh, I see. Thank you. So it's more about pressuring the US than being able to call a halt to the killing. Do you know if the ICJ has to take the case, or can they just dismiss it as not strong enough at this stage? If the US doesn't think the case will go anywhere they could just ignore it, I suppose.

Ahh ok no I didn't know that, it seems most of Netanyahu's gambles to stay in power have not paid off

@stormy4319trevor Biden has bypassed Congress a second time this month to approve emergency sales of weapons to Israel so I'm not sure what impact it will have on him

It seems Israel are using up their extensive weapon stash at a very speedy rate although I don't think anyone would be suprised by that just by looking at the sheer destruction of Gaza

@stormy4319trevor Legal cases are so slow to process , gathering evidence, submitting, arguing etc that it has to be about pressure.

If the ICJ refuses the case or slow walks it, what is the point of it's existence? the UN has been hampered in stopping the situation. International law has been ignored, so why should anyone follow it?.

Other states can "join" the case on either side, so countries will be forced to go on the record. America can't just ignore it, the IDF was extremely clever in ensuring that their weapons supplied by America have been filmed in action.

Give it about 72 hours for the articles on what could happen to come out and then we'll have a clearer picture.

@Parkingt111 Biden deems to be speeding up the weapons delivery rather than slowing down. I don't know if he's got a private timeline of how long the attack can continue, and of how much controversy he thinks his administration can weather maybe. @BelleHathor Yes, we will have to see if this action has any noticeable effect in next few days.

A leicester MP tweeted this in response. Not sure if this is the right place, maybe this needs a separate thread to discuss South Africa invoking the Genocide convention

“I fully support South Africa invoking the Genocide Convention today, against Israel, at the International Court of Justice.
The UK government, prime minister and Labour party leader should consider their complicity and position.
Ceasefire now.”

@Parkingt111 I think it's OK on this thread at the moment, as they are asking the ICJ to meet in next few days regarding ordering a ceasefire, and we have been discussing truces, ceasefires etc here. But a separate thread could be good if a lot of news comes back about it too, as it could turn into a bigger conversation.

@stormy4319trevor there's a thread started by@HeidiInTheBigCity
if you are interested

not wishing to disrupt@Parkingt111 s helpful posting just a FYI

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/4973246-south-africa-has-invoked-the-genocide-convention-against-israel-over-gaza

.

Thanks @efacsen. I may have a look at that thread.

Just seen this update. Slightly long but I thought it would be best to include what both sides are saying right now

International mediators are continuing their efforts to secure a new pause in the fighting in Gaza, after brokering a one-week truce last month during which more than 100 hostages were released and some aid entered the war-torn region, Agence France Presse reports.
US news outlet Axios and Israeli website Ynet, both citing unnamed Israeli officials, reported that Qatari mediators had told Israel that Hamas was prepared to resume talks on new hostage releases in exchange for a ceasefire.
A Hamas delegation was in Cairo on Friday to discuss an Egyptian plan proposing renewable ceasefires, a staggered release of hostages for Palestinian prisoners, and ultimately an end to the war, sources close to Hamas said.
Islamic Jihad, another armed group fighting alongside Hamas, said on Saturday that Palestinian factions were “in the process” of evaluating the Egyptian proposal.
A response will come “within days”, the group’s chief negotiator, Muhammad al-Hindi, said.
Asked about the negotiations on Saturday, Netanyahu said Hamas had been “giving all kinds of ultimatums that we didn’t accept”.
“We are seeing a certain shift [but] I don’t want to create an expectation.”

Nice summary @Parkingt111 thank you

Hamas response

29m ago
15.12 GMT

Hamas: no more hostage releases until 'aggression' ends

Hamas says it won’t be releasing any more hostages it took during the 7 October attacks on Israel, except under its own terms.

According to Reuters, the group’s political chief Ismail Haniyeh has laid out the Hamas position to officials of Egypt and Qatar, countries that have been trying to broker a ceasefire similar to the one in November that saw the release of a little more than 100 of the 240 hostages taken the month before.

Haniyeh is demanding “a complete cessation of the aggression” by Israel against the Palestinians before Hamas would consider further hostage releases, the news agency says. He also wants Israel to be “helping them and responding to their rightful demands”, Reuters says.

And also this from Israel isn't encouraging either

Israel defense minister: 'high intensity' battle in south is targeting Hamas leadership in tunnels

Israeli defense minister Yoav Gallant has said the operations in the south of the Gaza Strip around Khan Younis were focused on areas above what he said was a tunnel network where Hamas leaders were believed to be hiding.

“We are reaching them all ways. There already is engagement and there are hostages there too sadly” Reuters reports he told troops in Gaza in footage shown on Israeli television.

Hamas is freezing negotiations after the strike that killed one of its members in Lebanon today

https://twitter.com/WarMonitors/status/1742249598075437164

Is Saleh the one who met some of the hostages in the tunnels?