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Conflict in the Middle East

Detainees, Truce and Agreements *title altered at OP's request*

971 replies

stormy4319trevor · 26/11/2023 15:49

Continuing broad discussion of the release of detainees, hostages and prisoners and the agreements around this.

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stormy4319trevor · 26/11/2023 17:37

@Readingallnight Are there any hospitals left? I'm not up to date on what's going on with them, but it looked like the IDF were attacking quite a few last time I checked.

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Reallifelurker · 26/11/2023 17:55

I hope it's useful to have this thread. Glad to see 4 year old Abigail was released, bless her. Now wondering when Palestinians will be released. Seemed quite low key yesterday

“November 26, 2023

1703 GMT — Palestinian authorities have released the names of Palestinian prisoners set to be released in the third batch of hostage exchange between Israel and Hamas.
The list, revealed by the governmental Commission of Detainees’ Affairs and Palestinian Prisoners Society, a local nongovernmental organisation, exclusively included the names of child prisoners, totaling 39.
Among them are 21 children from Jerusalem, one is from Rafah in Gaza, and the remainders are from various parts of the occupied West Bank.
Qatar, with the support of the United States and Egypt, engaged in weeks of intense negotiations to secure the four-day truce between Israel and Hamas, which began Friday in Gaza after nearly seven weeks of bombardment that left nearly 15,000 Palestinians dead.
The 39 Palestinian detainees will be released in exchange for the 14 Israeli hostages and three foreign nationals released from Gaza earlier today”

https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/live-blog-39-palestinian-children-to-be-released-from-israeli-prisons-15983148

Why are so many of these prisoners children?
Convicted criminals my arse.

stormy4319trevor · 26/11/2023 18:00

@Reallifelurker Thank you. I'm glad it's so many children, but the WB looks like a terrible place to be a Palestinian child right now. At least they can see their families again, after years for some. Imagine being a child, brutally detained, and not seeing your mother for years. Tragic.

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Readingallnight · 26/11/2023 18:01

stormy4319trevor · 26/11/2023 17:37

@Readingallnight Are there any hospitals left? I'm not up to date on what's going on with them, but it looked like the IDF were attacking quite a few last time I checked.

I know there was, last night, two still left in the WB
but that’s it I think.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if those two remaining are attacked tonight.

stormy4319trevor · 26/11/2023 18:07

God it's horrendous @Readingallnight I just saw all the sick patients left lying in the car park at Al Shifa too.

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Reallifelurker · 26/11/2023 18:15

Thank you. I'm glad it's so many children, but the WB looks like a terrible place to be a Palestinian child right now

  • *Yep, settler attacks have really ramped up since the conflict started. The IDF do little to prevent them (and if you’re really unlucky they join in)
stormy4319trevor · 26/11/2023 18:35

@Reallifelurker ;Maybe it's partly due to Ben Gvir handing out loads of guns. David Cameron actually remarked that settlers really should be prosecuted when they kill Palestinians - at least he is saying it I suppose!

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stormy4319trevor · 26/11/2023 18:36

I wonder why they release Palestinians so late at night?

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Reallifelurker · 26/11/2023 18:57

@Reallifelurker The administrative detention system really takes away any chance of a fair legal process. If you don't know what you are being charged with, how can you defend yourself?

The lack of due process makes everything very murky.

I was reading up on a 21 year old Palestinian man called Ahmed Manasra who was 13 when he was arrested.
His 15 year cousin apparently stabbed two people and because Ahmed was with him at the time he was considered an accomplice. He ran away and someone gave chase and deliberately ran him over with their car. So much for the moral high ground.
Ahmed has been detained indefinitely and kept in solitary confinement for a lot of that time. His cousin was shot dead shortly after the attack.

Another example is 17 year old Aseel Osama Shadeh who was arrested for carrying a Hamas flag. She was also shot for good measure, albeit in the leg. The IDF said it was because she had a knife.

And the thing is maybe Ahmed participated in the attack and maybe he didn’t and maybe Aseel had a knife on her and maybe she didn’t. Because there’s no actual trial you don’t know do you?

Though I would like to say ramming a car into a 13 year old boy is not what I would call a citizens arrest either way.

Reallifelurker · 26/11/2023 19:22

Maybe it's partly due to Ben Gvir handing out loads of guns
Ah yes Ben-Gvir, a real force for diplomacy and in no way a racist.

David Cameron actually remarked that settlers really should be prosecuted when they kill Palestinians - at least he is saying it
Even Biden’s being a bit critical of Israel’s conduct now. Not that it will make a difference.

Still not everyone in Israel is a right wing settler and everyone’s saying Netanyahu’s days are numbered. Perhaps a more sane moderate government may eventually emerge

Queucumber · 26/11/2023 19:33

His 15 year cousin apparently stabbed two people and because Ahmed was with him at the time he was considered an accomplice

One of those stabbed was also 13.

stormy4319trevor · 26/11/2023 19:36

@reallifelurker Exactly - we don't know if crimes were committed without trial. And I wonder why they don't go through proper processes. I don't know what more moderate parties there are in Israel - Lapid doesn't seem much different, but happy to stand corrected,

Crowds gathered in Ramallah for release of Palestinians now - so far it looks peaceful.

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stormy4319trevor · 26/11/2023 19:37

@Queucumber That is tragic.

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Reallifelurker · 26/11/2023 19:43

One of those stabbed was also 13

Yes, I know.
I’m not condoning people being stabbed btw just think shoot one of them run the other over with a car sounds like maybe not the best way of responding to it.

Trulywonderful · 26/11/2023 19:46

Qatari prime minister Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman al-Thani told the Financial Times that more than 40 other women and children were being kept captive in Gaza who were not believed to be held by Hamas.

He said the truce could be extended if Hamas was able to use the pause in the conflict to locate those hostages. “If they get additional women and children, there will be an extension,” Sheikh Mohammed said in an interview. “We don’t yet have any clear information how many they can find because . . . one of the purposes [of the pause] is they [Hamas] will have time to search for the rest of the missing people.”

https://www.ft.com/content/2f684109-ec6f-4db2-9304-ef620b2e46d2

Hamas must locate dozens more hostages to extend truce, says Qatar

Gulf state PM Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman al-Thani says more than 40 Israelis are held by others in Gaza

https://www.ft.com/content/2f684109-ec6f-4db2-9304-ef620b2e46d2

stormy4319trevor · 26/11/2023 19:52

@Trulywonderful Yes, I heard that other people took captives, can't remember where. I can't read your article, but do they have any idea who might have the women and children?

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Reallifelurker · 26/11/2023 19:59

I can't read your article, but do they have any idea who might have the women and children?

No, nor can I. It’s behind a pay wall.
Have Hamas agreed to look for them?

Trulywonderful · 26/11/2023 19:59

stormy4319trevor · 26/11/2023 19:52

@Trulywonderful Yes, I heard that other people took captives, can't remember where. I can't read your article, but do they have any idea who might have the women and children?

Last I heard they are saying they can't be certain of which groups and who they have.

Also I think in some cases if some hostages got killed by Hamas fighters they will probably try and say others were holding them or have killed them. It doesn't really follow the current narrative to admit any of their own men killed hostages.

Basically we will just have to wait and see. Plus the released hostages will have bits of information about any other hostages they may have seen.

stormy4319trevor · 26/11/2023 20:07

That's a mess. I was thinking there aren't that many places to hide people, apart from tunnels used by Hamas. If there are small children they might blend in at refugee camps, I really don't know. Hopefully there may be info from recovered hostages. But I don't know if the families of hostages would rather it just continued with Hamas releasing some each day. Must be very hard for them,

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Trulywonderful · 26/11/2023 20:08

Reallifelurker · 26/11/2023 19:59

I can't read your article, but do they have any idea who might have the women and children?

No, nor can I. It’s behind a pay wall.
Have Hamas agreed to look for them?

Hamas is co-ordinating with Palestinian Islamic Jihad, another militant faction in Gaza for the release of hostages

There are still a lot of hostages unaccounted for though if you believe Hamas

Reallifelurker · 26/11/2023 20:12

I don't know what more moderate parties there are in Israel - Lapid doesn't seem much different, but happy to stand corrected,

I honestly don’t know. The Prime Minister who was assassinated wasn’t right wing was he? But I don’t know what party he represented or if it still exists.

BabaBarrio · 26/11/2023 20:12

Note written before October 7th:

GENEVA (10 July 2023) – Israel’s military occupation has morphed the entire occupied Palestinian territory into an open-air prison, where Palestinians are constantly confined, surveilled and disciplined,” a UN expert said today.
“Over 56 years, Israel has governed the occupied Palestinian territory through stifling criminalisation of basic rights and mass incarcerations,” said Francesca Albanese, UN Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian Territory occupied since 1967, in a new report to the Human Rights Council.
“Under Israeli occupation, generations of Palestinians have endured widespread and systematic arbitrary deprivation of liberty, often for the simplest acts of life and the exercise of fundamental human rights,” Albanese said. Without condoning violent acts that Palestinians may have committed during decades of Israel’s illegal occupation, most of their criminal convictions have resulted from a litany of violations of international law, including due process violations, that taint the legitimacy of the administration of justice by the occupying power.
The report finds that since 1967, over 800,000 Palestinians, including children as young as 12, have been arrested and detained under authoritarian rules enacted, enforced and adjudicated by the Israeli military. Palestinians are subject to long detention for expressing opinions, gathering, pronouncing unauthorised political speeches, or even merely attempting to do so, and ultimately deprived of their status of protected civilians. They are often presumed guilty without evidence, arrested without warrants, detained without charge or trial and brutalised in Israeli custody.
“Mass incarceration serves the purpose of quelling peaceful opposition against the occupation, protecting the Israeli military and settlers, and ultimately facilitating settler-colonial encroachment,” the Special Rapporteur said.
“Bundling Palestinians as a collective “security threat”, Israel has used draconian military orders to punish the exercise of basic rights. These measures have been used as tools to subjugate an entire population, depriving them of self-determination, enforcing racial domination and advancing territorial acquisition by force,” she said.
Albanese noted that Israel’s “carceral regime” haunts Palestinian life even outside prisons. Blockades, walls, segregated infrastructure, checkpoints, settlements encircling Palestinian towns and villages, hundreds of bureaucratic permits and a web of digital surveillance, further entrap Palestinians in a carceral continuum across strictly controlled enclaves.
“The widespread and systematic arbitrariness of the occupation’s carceral regime is yet another expression of the apartheid imposed on the Palestinians and strengthens the need to end it immediately,” the UN expert said.
“The mass and arbitrary deprivation of liberty that Palestinians have been collectively subjected to for decades aims to protect Israel’s annexation of Palestinian territory, a project with unlawful aims pursued by unlawful means,” Albanese said. “This macroscopic violation of fundamental principles of international law cannot be remedied by addressing some of its most brutal consequences. For Israel’s carceral regime to end, and its inherent apartheid with it, its illegal occupation of Palestine must end,” she said.
Albanese called on Member States to uphold their obligations not to aid or recognise Israel's settler-colonial occupation and incremental annexation, and use all diplomatic, political and economic measures under the UN Charter to bring it to an end and make sure its architects are brought to justice.
ENDS
Francesca Albanese is the Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian Territory occupied since 1967
The Special Rapporteurs are part of what is known as the Special Procedures of the Human Rights Council. Special Procedures, the largest body of independent experts in the UN Human Rights system, is the general name of the Council’s independent fact-finding and monitoring mechanisms that address either specific country situations or thematic issues in all parts of the world. Special Procedures experts work on a voluntary basis; they are not UN staff and do not receive a salary for their work. They are independent from any government or organisation and serve in their individual capacity.

https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/sessions-regular/session53/advance-versions/A_HRC_53_59_AdvanceUneditedVersion.pdf

Trulywonderful · 26/11/2023 20:14

Somebody doesn't like how the conversation is going then

BabaBarrio · 26/11/2023 20:18

I am happy to see more women and children going free. Especially children who were held hostage alone, like Emily Hand. I am also glad to see that the hostages of Hamas have all been in good physical health and there are no reports of torture/rape.

I am similarly happy to see Palestinian women, some who have been in prison since they were children going home to their families. As well as the teenage boys some of whom had been in months of administrative detention.

More happiness is what Israel and Palestine both need. I am wishing every night the truce will be extended and then be a ceasefire afterwards.

The Pope said that any side who refuses to come to the table to talk and find a solution, isn’t interested in peace. Maybe they will give his words a bit of weight.

Reallifelurker · 26/11/2023 20:24

“The mass and arbitrary deprivation of liberty that Palestinians have been collectively subjected to for decades aims to protect Israel’s annexation of Palestinian territory, a project with unlawful aims pursued by unlawful means,” Albanese said.

It does seem like it’s a way of keeping the Palestinians down than punish wrong doing per se.

After all* *waving a Hamas flag is a foolish thing to do but there’s only so much you can do to the flag waver if that’s all they’ve done. If you investigate and they’re not a terrorist just a punk then you have to let them go. Much easier (and more intimidating) to just lock them up and not bother investigating anything.

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