South Africa has invoked the Genocide Convention against Israel over Gaza

[HeidiInTheBigCity]

The entire filing is 84 pages long and, frankly, took me several hours to read - it's well worth the effort, though, in that it is rather (painfully at times) clinical and devastating in equal measure: https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf

Go, South Africa!

It might not male that much of a difference in the short term - but: to see the former victims of Apartheid take the lead on the world stage, and offer support (the way they - after multiple decades of campaigning and pressure ... it's not as though world leaders hated Apartheid South Africa "by default") is just ... a little spark of light within the darkness!

Thank you for this ray of hope. It's been sickening to see the mass killing of civilians dismissed or rationalised by people I admired.

Bravo South Africa. Someone had to do this, well done them.
Thanks for posting Op.

So what happens next?

I dont know what the precedents are for this , but they are being called to account and accused of genocide and guessing other warm crimes.
I guess other countries will support the motion. The more growing international pressure to desist the better.
Someone aware of the process will tell us soon......

Realistically speaking:

It'll take years before there is a verdict.

The filing also calls for immediate preliminary measures, and - depending upon circumstances and politicking - these might even be granted by the court.

Enforceability has been and always will be a major issue. Therefore, a verdict may not necessarily have an immediate, tangible effect.

It would, however, as would preliminary measures, add to the pressure and make it quite embarrassing to keep up support. On a global, geopolitical level, it'd also add to the existing and growing risk to the credibility of so-called Western values unless their proponents took note.

Thanks@HeidiInTheBigCity .
Just heard the BBC World Service news and they reported a demand for response/measures within a week.
Hopefully this action will break through what feels like a deadlocked situation.

Thanks South Africa! Time for countries yo formally lay their cards on the table and go on record. Hopefully we are getting closer to Justice!

And Thanks @HeidiInTheBigCity .

Hopefully other countries will follow SA

I'm glad South Africa are taking a stand. It would be great if it had a domino effect.

Israel blamed SA and Algeria for having their diplomat removed from the African Union summit early this year, they said SA was motivated by hate so I don't think they'll take this well.

https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/top-israeli-diplomat-ejected-au-summit-row-escalates-2023-02-18/

As I said about this in another thread, lots of Countries rightly called out SA on their apartheid system when it was happening, but Israel have been getting a free pass for years. I’m so glad SA are leading the way on this, they know all about oppression. Surely other Countries cannot ignore this!

Correct FOJN
"Israel said Pretoria’s accusations were “baseless “and a “blood libel.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/blood-libel-israel-slams-south-africa-for-filing-icj-genocide-motion-over-gaza-war/

There was an interesting little snippet in last nights Guardian about it usually being difficult to prove intent in charges of genocide - not so Israel who have been loud and clear

''Susan Akram, director of the international human rights clinic at Boston University, said:

Genocidal intent is assumed to be the most difficult element to prove, but Israelis in charge of prosecuting this conflict have made a plethora of statements that easily prove the requisite intent to ‘destroy in whole or in part’ the Palestinian population in Gaza.

As examples, Akram pointed to Israeli defence minister Yoav Gallant’s reference to Palestinians in Gaza as “human animals” and Israeli army Major General Ghassan Alian’s subsequent statement that: “Human animals must be treated as such. There will be no electricity and no water [in Gaza], there will only be destruction. You wanted hell, you will get hell.”

Yoav Gallant has not said that Palestinians are human animals. He said "We are fighting against human animals". Clearly he is referring to Hamas. Not Gazans, or Palestinians.

You might have forgotten that Hamas carried out a pogrom recently, which included mass rape. A hundred years ago Jewish people could not protect themselves against pogroms. Now they have their own state and they can.

I think there is a lot of hypocrisy here. For Israelis, this is like the Second World War. The Americans and the British destroyed cities and everyone in them, for example Hamburg. The Israelis are not doing any such thing.

When Americans an British killed large numbers of people in Hamburg it wasn't because of revenge, or collective punishment. It was because the inhabitants were contributing to the Nazi war effort, and the Nazis had to be wiped out.

Forgive me @ElonGates666 but I'll trust the word of an expert in the field of International Human Rights over some anonymous MNer any day of the week

And we'll see what happens about the 'unfortunate' pronouncements of the Israeli government in due course

Just putting this here. It states Nelson Mandela’s family hosted Hamas members.

Very disturbing.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/relatives-of-nelson-mandela-welcome-hamas-officials-to-10th-anniversary-memorial/amp/

South Africa's ANC government has close links to both Hamas and Iran.
The Anglican Cathedral in Cape Town also recently hosted a Hamas delegation - post 7 October.

It's not a question of trusting the word of experts, it's a question of the facts. It is not a fact that Gallant refers to Palestinians as human animals. He does not refer to Gazans as human animals. There is no war in the West Bank where most Palestinians live. So obviously he cannot be referring to Palestinians as a whole.

IDF is fighting Hamas. Hamas are evil. I would not call them animals because that would be an insult to animals. Also I would question using the word 'animal' for any group of people, even Nazis. You have to understand though the anger of Israelis because of the pogrom.

The accusation of genocide is a very serious accusation to make. It should not be used inappropriately because that makes it more difficult to deal with genuine cases of genocide. South Africa would do better to talk about genocide in the Darfur region of Sudan.

Sorry what? Where was the outrage for the Kurds in turkey or the Yazidis in Syria? Both minority, non-Muslim groups suffered genocide at the hands of their countries. They suffered religious persecution. The women and children were raped and trafficked.

The Jews have been systematically exiled and pogromed from each country in the Middle East. They were given Isreal and were willing for a two state solution but still suffer constant rocket attacks, suicide bombers and pogroms like 7th of October from the PLO and now from Hamas who’ve actually put in their charter their aim of genociding the Israelis. Yet the whole world says it’s the other way around because the Israelis have gone total war and are defending themselves in the way that the Kurds and yazidis couldn't and didn’t. Because one sides right wing fundamentalist escalation brings out the right wing fundamentalists on the other side, and then tiktok propaganda seems to have us all by the balls. And now South Africa is joining in the politicking? And what of the Hamas leaders in their mansions in Qatar? Surely if anyone can save their people it’s them? Maybe sell a mansion and buy some infrastructure for the 2 million Palestinians on the ground and suffering the effects of their “leadership”. But no it’s Israel who are wrong for retaliating against the people who want to genocide them “from the river to the sea.”

They've been remarkable quiet on Nigeria as well.

Didn’t take long for the whataboutery to join the thread.

this is South Africans decision. If anyone not happy than please take it with their government

You mean context and the global and historical take right?

its very relevant to the narrative that SA are hosting Hamas and in their pocket. And that hamas’s goal is to genocide Israel. Don’t you think?

We are exposing hypocrisy, and you call it "whataboutery".

South Africa have quite the cheek and need to get their own house in order. Apart from the ANC having worrying links to Hamas, have you actually been to SA? Apartheid is alive and well, if not in law than certainly in practice. As my Nigerian friend who studied there put it ‘it lives on in the minds of the people here’- she couldn’t get out fast enough, she found the racism unbearable. It is also still whites who hold the economic power there, but incredibly dangerous still.