Detainees, Truce and Agreements *title altered at OP's request*

[stormy4319trevor]

Continuing broad discussion of the release of detainees, hostages and prisoners and the agreements around this.

That's amazing
So glad they were able to distribute the much needed food parcels
As I said things would be much worse without them

@Parkingt111 it's still insufficient given half the population [1,3 million] is now in Rafah and outside of there it's dire/impossible - imagine trying to distribute anything in Khan Younis atm

You were right about the bombs used at Al Magwazi refugee camp on xmas eve - Haaretz were reporting earlier than they were the 'wrong' ones ie the huge 2000 ones - survivors searching thro' the rubble today are only finding body parts and can't identify them in order to bury their family members. I know this is in the wrong place - sorry can't remember wh thread it was on

That bomb is so powerful it can temporarily turn the ground to liquid
Experts say the affects of using it in urban areas are so devastating it could take over a decade to recover from
The US used this type of bomb once in the Iraq war, that's how brutal it is

Israel has used it more than 200 times In Gaza

As soon as I saw the footage of the aftermath of the attack on Al Maghazi my heart sank, not only for the deceased but for those who survived and will live with the trauma for the rest of their lives

Interestingly these bombs are provided by the US. So on the one hand they keep openly saying that Israel needs to do more to keep civilians safe. And on the other hand provide them with bombs to use at their disposal as if they are handing out candy, which affect are like so:

The heavy munitions, mostly manufactured by the US, can cause high casualty events and can have a lethal fragmentation radius – an area of exposure to injury or death around the target – of up to 365 meters (about 1,198 feet), or the equivalent of 58 soccer fields in area.

🤣🤣 thanks for the laugh. It's needed today.

This is the latest in terms of agreements that is being reported

Egyptian officials have said its mediators have put forward a framework that would see the war between Israel and Hamas end in Gaza.
The plan proposes three "successive and linked" stages ending in a permanent ceasefire - but no further details were shared.
Hamas and Israel are said to have received the proposals, and Egypt is awaiting responses.
Cairo will offer further details of the plan once those responses are received, Diaa Rashwan, head of Egypt's state information service, said in a statement.
The proposal is an attempt "to bring viewpoints between all concerned parties closer, in an effort to stop Palestinian bloodshed and the aggression against the Gaza Strip and restore peace and stability to the region," he said.
"Egypt confirms that it has not yet received any responses to the proposed framework from any of the concerned parties."
Egyptian security sources had previously indicated to the Reuters news agency that the proposal included a multi-stage ceasefire involving prisoner releases by Israel and Hamas

Both Hamas and Israeli government are yet to respond to it
We might hear abit more later on once they do

I have just seen some footage from Gaza in the news. Whole building blocks tipped on the ground and others reduced to tiny rubble. Even knowing how heavy the fire has been, it is still a shock to see it, somehow.
Also, the same for the other side of the border, I have seen some of the houses and buildings hit by the Hamas rockets, and where the buildings were close to each other, full destruction too.
Just wishing that the near future is the very last time that this is re-built and that both set of civilians can feel safe and sound in their homes.
Best luck to the egyptian peace plan!

Yes we do want the same thing - an end to the conflict.

But can't you see that by Hamas refusing to release the hostages is not going to end the bombardment? I think you feel that if the hostages are released, then Israel may not stop or go back on their word if they agree to this.
However, the UK and USA will continue to support Israel as long as Hamas have these hostages.

I don't know how the US justifies providing these kinds of weapons. There must be some regulations around the kind of weapons provided, surely.

@floodlightonwhatisright I don't think Israel have actually said that there will be a ceasefire if the hostages are released? The most I have seen is they have asked for the release in exchange for a longer pause

There's also the concern of Netanyahu's refusal to talk about 'the day after'. I have seen reports that Mossad and other groups in authority in Israel have also been pressing him on this but he seems reluctant to see anything pass the war right now. It does seem in his best interests to pro-long it for aslong as he can. I was atleast pleased to see that there does seem to be some pressure from within Israel but I don't know how effective it is. I think over time this will grow

@stormy4319trevor there are regulations around this which is why many in the US have been questioning and expressed their concern. However from what I have read there seems to be some loopholes in the laws to get around it.

@Parkingt111 I suppose there must be some major loopholes! It probably should be investigated, but I won't hold my breath.

No they have not.
But there is no hope for one as long as Hamas insist the hostages will not be released unless there is one. I want a ceasefire but zero chance it will happen at the moment.

I don’t understand? How is Hamas calling for a ceasefire and offering the release of all hostages in exchange resulting in no hope for a ceasefire? Surely it is Nethanyu refusing the ceasefire that is the obstacle to the ceasefire?

It’s like with any arms dealers, the misuse of weapons is the legal liability of the entity using the weapons, not the manufacturer.

There is Congressional oversight to ensure that weapons sold by the U.S. are not sold on to enemies of the US or terrorists. But that is it.

The US did refuse Nethanyu’s request for Apache attack helicopters, probably because it’s obvious the intention is to start a full on war with Lebanon as the helicopters would be perfect for pushing the current border skirmishes up into another full war as the helicopters are traditionally used as close air support of ground troops. They don’t need them for Gaza, but they do if they want to take the fight deep into Lebanon.

Thank you @Hellenika I'm surprised there isn't regulation regarding the destructiveness of weapons supplied, but I suppose that might affect arms manufacturers profits. It is looking as if the Israeli government is thinking of making a move on Lebanon, perhaps. I think they are saying that time for a diplomatic resolution with Lebanon is running out.

Nope.

Hamas took them and start6ed the war.
They need to return them or Israel will not deal on any terms. That's the reality whether you understand it or not.
Blame Hamas for starting something like this.

IDF apologises for using 'wrong munition'

Israeli military 'regrets harm to civilians' after dozens killed in refugee camp strike

The Israeli military has said it “regrets the harm” caused by an Israel Defense Forces (IDF) strike that killed dozens of people in the Maghazi refugee camp in the centre of Gaza earlier this week.

An Israeli military official, speaking to Israel’s Kan news today, said:
The type of munition did not match the nature of the attack, causing extensive collateral damage that could have been avoided.

'Thinking of making a move on Lebanon'.... they actually said that if Lebanon dobt stop Hezbolah firing weapons and attacking Israel them they will stop them. I mean, are they supposed to just take all the terrorist attacks and do nothing!

@XRAYTHIS the UN conventions that are held so dear are broken repeatedly by Hezbollah when they repeatedly attack Israel.

@Hellenika thank you for that - wondered why the Apache helicopters had been refused

I think it was to be expected that things would escalate. There have been frequent skirmishes on the border, which is probably linked to the invasion of Gaza, but I would think the Israeli government knew this would happen and have prepared for the likely scenario. From a humanitarian standpoint, further escalation is of course hugely dangerous and traumatic for all concerned.

It is a very dangerous situation. Oct 8th Hellbolah fired rockets into Israel as a show of support for Palestine before Israel had even retaliated. Indeed they celebrated the hamas atrocity. They continue to launch attacks.

However they are backed by Iran and have thousands of missiles and fighter jets and many more weapons. It won't
be good for anyone if that escalates. Middle Eastern countries and the US could be dragged in. I imagine Hamas feel they have support in a number of western countries now. Its not great at all.

I know @XRAYTHIS There are efforts to resolve it going on I think, but it's worrying for the region, and as you say, for the rest of the world too.