Please do all you can to object to the genocide of Palestinians

[Finallyloggedin]

It’s just heartbreaking. I’ve seen videos on twitter that are beyond anything I can even begin to describe. Palestinians are being murdered in their thousands and the western media is largely pretending it’s not happening.

The average age of the people who have been killed in Gaza is FIVE years old.

The UK media are not showing how the Israeli government is openly talking about, and cheerleading genocide now. Israeli government speaks about Palestinians as if they are not humans. They are saying women are targets as they can have babies. I’ve just read how, since October 7th they have taken over 5,000 Palestinians from the West Bank and tortured them. They were already routinely arresting Palestinians and taking them away from their family with no reason and no but this is not being adequately reported.

Please, please visit sites such as 972 magazine and declassified uk. The BBC, etc, unfortunately aren’t reporting the extent to what is going on.

https://www.declassifieduk.org/israel-and-its-allies-are-repurposing-the-goals-and-lies-of-1948-in-gaza-in-2023/

Thank you for clarifying. Unfortunately the IDF are always stretched and simply cannot act upon every suspicion or piece of intelligence. Why are you angry at the IDF for that?

It is shocking because the high command was repeatedly told about the possibility of an attack but, for whatever reasons, they didn't act on it.
If they had, maybe, just maybe the 1200 Israelis and the 23000 Palestinians ( and rising) would still be alive and no hostages would have been taken.
This is why I find it shocking.

Thank you for clarifying. Unfortunately the IDF are always stretched and simply cannot act upon every suspicion or piece of intelligence. Why are you angry at the IDF for that?
They were provided with strong evidence. They dismissed it. If this had happened in the UK, would you still excuse their lack of action?

I am n ot excusing but explaining.

Also the UK does not have multiple unfriendly countries on all of their borders and is not an effective comparison.

There is no no evidence that the "high command" definitely knew this was happening and it is a bit of a stretch to say no hostages would have been taken. How do you stop paragliders with now arning for example?

You have a rather high opinion of the skill and resources of the IDF - they are a great combat unit but are not prophets.

The IDF did not keep the border safe, as an organisation they failed a key objective.

That is a fact.

How is this a fact?
How do you keep borders safe against an atatck of this type?

Another way of victim blaming and making it about everything other than Hamas and their be genocidal actions.
America made a judgment call before 9/11.
We can only act on The information we have and then make a call.
You would be climbing the walls if it was the wrong way. And innocent people detained.
The intelligence services will have to answer at some point.
Maybe not complain and act surprised when the IDF act on intelligence now and go after known terrorists in Gaza?

While I think it's important to find the answers to the questions of who had what information and when, and why did they reach the decisions they did in relation to that information, those questions shouldn't be used to diminish Hamas's responsibility for their actions on October 7th.

Just as the people I knew and cared about in Gaza didn't deserve to be killed by the IDF, the people attacked and killed on October 7th didn't deserve to be killed by Hamas.

@Scirocco absolutely and I imagine it will be looked into and scrutinised in great detail post conflict.

@Scirocco well said I agree

Reading that article I was just thinking of the parents of the soldier who kept saying that I think something big is going to happen, I think there is going to be a war and how they must be feeling now that she was killed.
It's absolutely devestating
And the father who see's the other female soldiers with their fathers and feels the loss of his own daughter
I hope it is recognised that the female soldiers who were overlooking the border, did everything correct that they were supposed to do

If anyone hasn't already read it, the BBC has an article on their website that's worth reading - women's voices have often been silenced or dismissed in military settings and in conflicts, and these young women deserve to have their voices heard.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67958260

@Scirocco yes that's the article i read, thank you

I hope that comment about victim blaming wasn’t aimed at me, because if it was I strongly refute that misinterpretation of my comments. It’s nonsense to suggest that by saying the IDF as an organisation failed their objective I am victim blaming.

Wouldn’t it be lovely if the IDF used intelligence to carry out more targeted attacks and the innocent civilians in Gaza could go back to their homes.

Also, I have noted you never answered my previous question about whether you view the people of Palestine as a homogenous group who are all hell bent on the destruction of Jews.

As a matter of interest, do you think that if one says one's comments are misinterpreted, does it absolve one from saying things that one believes to be right even though it is clearly indefensible and wrong? This is a general comment and not based upon any specific comment.

Posted higher up just a few posts ago.

Why post again?

So what kind of standard do you hold Hamas to? How high is that bar? Are you So you you feel Hamas is not a prosperous or as democratic country /government, right?

So what does this mean concerning their unprovoked terrorist attack?

@saveallthewhales sorry, I didn't see it posted earlier.

No problem.

So that we can have a two way discussion, would you be willing to answer my questions first? I will then in return, do you the courtesy of answering yours.

@lettherebepeaceintheworld I think it very much depends on what was said, in what context, and things like intention and impact. Also, I’m not sure what you mean by absolve, I imagine the answer could be different depending on what lens you view it through, for example whether you viewed the question through a philosophical, religious or legal lens.

What are your thoughts?

Sure.

why I would be angry that these young female soldiers warnings were not taken seriously?

I do not understand as you have not proved that these warnings were not taken seriously. How do you know? The IDF cannot possibly act though, on every fear or suspicion.

Are you not angry, that yet again, more women have been let down by an organisation that is meant to protect them?

No, I do not agree that they have been let down so I am not angry.

I am angry with Hamas for perpetrating this terrible unprovoked attack.

@saveallthewhales

Regarding the issue with young female soldiers raising the alarm, and this not being taken seriously, there is evidence in the BBC article that has been referenced twice on this page. What extra evidence would you like to see?

Regarding Hamas and Israeli government, I expect that a legally recognised government, who is our ally, has to have met some kind of criteria that enables a relationship between the countries to exist. That is why there is the expectation of a different standard of behaviour. What I had hoped would be the same, is our response to the killing of innocent civilian's on both sides of this war.

In my opinion, it is never OK for the leaders of a country/state to kill innocent civilians.

Do you believe it is OK for innocent civilians to be killed?

And do you believe that the general population of Palestine are innocent?

Holding Israel to a higher standard is in my view supportable. I will ponder upon your questions.