Shocked by the racist signs at marches

[Pigeotto]

Maybe I’m just severely naive but I’m honestly just shocked at the levels of racism of some of the signs at these marches. It’s just caught me really, really off guard.

No room for nuance at all any more, I guess. It is quite possible to
acknowledge the right of Israel to exist
acknowledge the rise of Islamofascism
acknowledge the rise of anti-semitism
acknowledge that Hamas is a barbaric organisation which has zero interest in the Palestinian people, similar to many Arab states
and
still think that Israel is committing genocide! Without playing dumb.

Yep both groups last weekend were disgusting and both need better policing. Else they need stopping from protesting. Either option is fine by me.

Why on earth would you think the above when there is absolutely zero evidence for it? It comes from a place of your enormous privilege. Women would be free to go wherever they fancied in a 'free' Palestine? Really??

Perhaps not hate speech as that wasn’t your intent, your comment stems more from ignorance. You should read a bit about the Palestinian people and their governance before assuming all Muslim majority countries are the same as (insert worst one you can think of here).

The Palestinian Legislature has no law on the books that punishes apostasy or blasphemy with death.

The Palestinians have had and do have women leaders.

Dr Jilan Wahba Abdalmajid is the current ambassador to Ireland.

Hanan Ashwari was the official spokesperson of the Palestinian delegation at the Madrid Peace Conference of 1991 and was elected to the Palestinian Legislative Council as a representative of Jerusalem in 1996.

Vera Baboun was mayor of Bethlehem from 2012-2017.

Khalifa Jarrar is a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council and spearheaded their joining the ICC.

Intissar al-Wazir was the Social Affairs Minister of the State of Palestine from 1995 to 2005. Intissar al-Wazir is also credited with founding the General Union of Palestinian Women, which focuses on the economic, social, and legal status of women in Palestine.

Janet Mikhail was the first female mayor of Ramallah, a large Palestinian city in the West Bank.

Dr Jamila al-Shanti is a university lecturer and member of the Palestinian Legislative Council.

Mai al-Kaila is the current Minister of Health for the Palestinian Authority. Mai al-Kaila also served as the Palestinian Ambassador to Italy and to Chile between 2006 and 2019.

The Palestinian Legislative Council functions like our Parliament as it comprises of 132 elected members from Palestinian terratories. Unfortunately the Hamas coup in Gaza caused its functions to be suspended from 2007 until today.

So before Hamas reached power, they were indeed operating as a democracy with an elected legislative body that included women as elected representatives.

There is no reason why they would not return to this post Hamas.

I agree with this.

I cannot fathom how Israel can justify what they are doing. I cannot fathom why our governments are supporting it.

But equally I cannot understand the 'kill the jews' attitude from some on the other side. And they are definitely there amongst the marchers, however innocently the ceasefire majority are, they must see that they are marching alongside that hate speech.

What it all shows to me is how deeply entrenched the issues are, and that neither side is willing to acknowledge that they might possibly be part of the problem, it is always the other sides fault.

Unless another extremist Islamic group took over Gazens would probably not be like Iran without Hamas

When Hamas have tried to bring in laws about Hijab wearing or modest dress the Gazens have had protests and riots. This tells us that the majority will reject Taliban or Iranian type regimes

It does also shows that the Gazens are not totally helpless under Hamas. Which does raise a few questions regarding Gaza in general before this latest conflict but that is a different conversation.

There is no legal requirement for Palestinian women to wear the hijab. Many do not wear the hijab, especially the Christian ones.

When I visited the area around 14 years ago. We learned that life was Liberal, very tolerant, and all religions lived side by side. As for Iran, life was Liberal there too. Just to throw in another country Libya, was fine until Cameron lied, and got involved. Been there too, and learned a lot. but the fact remains many people were happy and just wanted to be left along. fact all these countries were fine until the western ones got involved. US and UK. Our guide was a Christian, not a Muslim and very experienced, and knowledgeable. Very articulate in English. I think you'll find the hand of the western government have played their parts in many things. I'm European by way, and a christian. Just saying there is a lot of ignorance being thrown around.

I didn't say they had to, but that is the tone on this thread, is it not? And on many threads, where posters appear to believe that Israel is fighting for the liberation of women by blowing them up.

Women are free to go where they please within Palestinian Territories when Israel isn’t raiding or bombing them!

The statement “free Palestine from the river to the sea” means an end to apartheid and equal rights and citizenship to most Palestinians by the way. It mirrors exactly the Israeli Likud charter that declares “Between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.”

To read both as genocidal in intent is to be islamaphobic and antisemitic as neither are genocidal in intent. To read one but not the other as genocidal makes you either islamaphobic or antisemitic.

"You have literally been on threads discussing the antisemitism signs plus can just Google or read online media reports

Don't play dumb when we all seen your apologist posts on other threads

Just be honest about your own thoughts or feelings on the subject"

@Trulywonderful If someone starts a thread stating a claim, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for some examples of the claim they are making.

It was the Mandate of Palestine there never has been a state or country called Palestine. The last time it was a state or country was before the Roman colonisers took it from the Jews. Jerusalem has only even in history been the capital of a Jewish state (Twice). The land was just a land mass not used much by anyone throughout most its in-between history. The Arabs on the land didn't call themselves Palestinians until the 60s when Arafat invented the flag and told them to start calling themselves this. Prior to that most were called Jordanians because two thirds of the Mandate ended up as part of Jordan

Israel is fighting for the liberation of women by blowing them up.

Israel is not fighting for the liberation of anyone who is not Jewish. They are fighting to obliterate everyone and regain the gaza strip for Israel.

That is not the aim of your ordinary Israeli on the streets, but it is certainly the driving force behind Netenyahu and his cronies. There is no intent to have a peaceful co-existance.

That is the tone on this thread and it’s so despairing really. I agree with you that blowing up women to free them from the hijab (which they are not even required to wear) is insanity.

There is no reason why they would not return to this post Hamas.

Why would Hamas give up power?

Exactly this.

People here can argue as much as they like about ‘oh it was only a few bad apples’. But the fact is that fellow marchers happily continued to march alongside these racists. They were not challenged. They were not told to leave. And everyone k ew they would be there. Everyone knew they would be marching alongside them. After all we have seen in recent weeks, no one can pretend innocence on that front now.

Of course, the people who turned up to a London march with the pride flag were quickly challenged ( and by challenged, I mean attacked) by fellow marchers and their flag torn away.

But the racists were allowed to march in peace.

It’s because of the parallels people draw between the current far-right Israeli govt and their rhetoric about the Palestinians and how they treat them and how the Nazis treated “lesser” beings i.e. calling for all Palestinians to be wiped out, that they’re “human animals”, “children of darkness” whilst Israelis are “children of light”, the implications of what the Israeli regime imposes on Palestinians and the systematic racism and much, much more.

I have heard multiple Jewish activists also call the current Israeli govt Nazis and draw direct comparisons between the treatment of Jewish people under the Nazis and the treatment of Palestinians under the Israeli govt. I have also heard this from Israeli Jewish people.

That being said, I think putting a Nazi inside a Star of David is wrong, especially as a non-Jewish person and if the star is clearly not on an Israeli flag, then even more so.

However, I’d say that the insinuation that she is a neo-Nazi is incorrect, I think the sign was a very, very poorly judged mistake, as it would of course be very upsetting to a decent amount of Jewish people.

I do think that some people want to make the most provocative signs that they can (probably with good intentions) but misjudge and create something terribly offensive, but these are really few and far between.

I also don’t believe there is implied malice behind the sign towards anyone and everyone Jewish, I believe it’s aimed at Netanyahu.

Wow. Nice try, where is the evidence for this?

In general I agree, there is a disconnect or paradox with how some people view things.

But lots of Palestinians are people not so different from us, it's not as strict as Iran.

It is if we have all seen some of the posters on other antisemitism threads making excuses for the examples of signs there.

Sorry but after a month of some posters doing the same thing again and again. Then being apologists for marches that are clearly being antisemitic in photos or videos I have little time for some posters behaviour on these threads

You can't say though, that because some people are bad, we should let them all kill each other - or more accurately, just Palestinians be killed.

But there won't be a Hamas soon. Surely, Israel isn't going to have killed 11,000 innocent people including over 4,000 children, collateral damage in the pursuit of Hamas only to not defeat them?

Curious to know, do you know any Palestinians? Are you friends with any?

What a horrible post
Who is 'they' and you know full well that the majority being killed are innocent civilians.
Are they deserving of it every time their government carries out something wrong.
What would be the state of the UK if we applied that logic here with our history

Do you want a ceasefire?