Scared to be Jewish

[WibbleWobbleFlop]

I am not pro-IDF or pro-Hamas, in fact I am very strongly against both. Netanyahu's government is an ultra-right wing aggressive shitshow and Hamas is an "elected" group of cowardly murdering terrorists. I am horrified for all Israeli and Palestinian civilians. I can't even begin to imagine how those poor innocent people of Gaza are carrying on, nor how the hostages and families are coping. I want nothing more than Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace side by side in a democratic two-state solution.

I am a secular Jew. I live in the UK. I am supposedly safe, as are my children.

But I don't feel like we will be safe much longer. Hamas wants the annihilation of all Jews, not just the destruction of the state of Israel. It's not about freeing Palestine to them. It is about eliminated an entire ethnicity. My ethnicity.

When Jews were targeted in the Holocaust, it didn't matter if they were religious, Orthodox, or secular. It didn't matter if they were in Poland or Germany or Russia. Jewish blood meant "evil".

Jewish ancestry is traceable. If Hamas gains further popularity in the Middle East (incredibly likely, given their links to Iran and Qatar), there is a real danger for literally every Jew in the world. I am seeing more and more Europeans and Americans leaning so far to the Palestinian side that they want Israel to stop being an accepted state. This gives so much more power to Hamas because any aid sent to Palestine is being spent on weapons and rockets being used against the Jews.

I'm sure I will be told I am overreacting. But I am scared. And I think I have every right to be.

Those messages are probably in response to the latest Hamas atrocity, right? In the face of such extreme barbarity they are totally reasonable and understandable. In the immediate aftermath of something so horrific no sensible or humane person would wade in with any sort of 'both sides' argument. I don't know any of the wider context, for example how you have approached the issue in the past, so can't possibly judge those responses any further.

The reason Jewish people in the UK uphold western values is that western values ARE Jewish values. Respect, tolerance, charity; I'm Jewish but I know many muslims also hold and practice these values. They too uphold western values.

I know people who are both Jewish and Muslim who don't hold onto these values in times of crisis, largely due to heightened emotional states (understandably) and horrendous reporting from both several media sources which massively inflames the situation. There is also the case of misinformation and people not understanding that history didn't start 75 years ago...

They should have stormed the Hamas HQ and taken them down. There have been zero attempts of this so far, Israel seem to much prefer killing civilians.

I think the only way this ends is when all parties put down arms and obey international law and UN resolutions. Unfortunatly, I don't think either side is going to do that
I agree with you.

Until people, especially the people with power, start focusing on the civilians who are being harmed I don't think this is going to get any better. The implications are far reaching to our Muslim and Jewish citizens around the world too who will have to living with rising antisemitism and islamophobia.

I also fear that the response to this situation is going to leave a lot of fertile ground for radicalisation. You might be able to blow a lot of people up, starve them to death, withdraw basic provisions like water, displace them, try force them to neighbouring countries, but you can't kill an ideology with bombs.

Netanyahu might get his scorched earth and some more land to occupy, but at what cost to Israelis moving forward, at what cost to the Palestinian people, and at what cost to Muslims and Jews around the world?

Posted since the Hamas atrocity but after IDF response. I've not approached the issue at all - I had no narrative ready to go - I was expecting (it was linked in ffs) a considered balanced response.
Love the fact you now can't judge the response when on less information you were prepared to be highly judgemental

I'm Jewish but I know many muslims also hold and practice these values. They too uphold western values.

these are eastern/Islamic Values too.

I feel sorry for anyone feeling unsafe at the moment , no one should be sacred to show their faith, or should be punished or made to feel guilty for who they are.
but I can’t help but notice the not so thinly vailed racism and Islamophobia on display here.

There isn't one Hamas HQ. There is a whole network. They need to take out all Hamas's capability - miles of tunnels, logistics, ammo storage, equipment, generators, rocket launchers, and all the hoarded supplies & fuel, all deliberately spread around Gaza in amongst civilians who, don't forget, Hamas are forcing to stay in place.

Agree with every word Ginlette. Many dear friends are Jewish feel for them. It’s not their fault. Sickening to compare that Russian people living here rightly are not threatened yet Jewish people are? Think on that.

@queenofarles apologies, I didn't word that well - you are correct of course, these values are actual global values for many cultures.

Sickening to compare that Russian people living here rightly are not threatened yet Jewish people are?

Russian people were actually targeted at the start of the conflict, Russian flags ripped down, and many suffered quite violent attacks.

We have Russian friends who left London for a while because of the vitriol.

@Ginlette The quiet strength of your post is very moving. The West has lost its mind over this issue and what is particularly terrifying is that people can’t seem to see that the Iranian supported Hamas movement is an attack on the western values of democracy, equality and freedom.

Israel is the only functioning democracy in the Middle East and the only one that affords equal rights to women and gay people. Ever since it’s inception it has been subjected to relentless and violent attacks, hence the military checkpoints etc.

I’m pleased to read your reference to the enormous contribution of the Jewish community to western values. Albert Einstein, Gloria Steinem, Stephen Sondheim, Bob Dylan - I could name hundreds without even pausing.

Every country has the right to defend itself and its citizens.

The muslims trying to storm the plane in Dagestan recently which was carrying jews from Tel Aviv is symptomatic. If they just kneeled down and prayed at the airport for their cause no one would have too much of a problem with it as long as they were not blaming individual jews.

I am Christian and also support Israel as do many of us in the West and any anti semitism is illegal in the UK. Apparently a male NHS doctor very near to me, if newspaper reports are right, is a leading Hamas supporter. https://metro.co.uk/2023/10/29/leader-of-group-that-celebrated-hamas-attacks-is-nhs-gp-under-different-name-19737304/

Also three NHS doctors in the UK have been reported to the medical authorities one saying no Israelis deserve to live. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/28/nhs-doctors-reported-anti-semitic-social-media-israel/

I appreciate all sides have strong views, but they must not tip over into breach of British law and if our enforcement of the law enrages some groups in the UK then I would rather we dealt with that rage than kow tow to law breakers.

However I am always in favour of freedom of speech and religion as long as within the law so it is certainly a difficult balance for the state to get right. We chose to let into the UK a very large number of people who do not share our values, sometimes simply because they were conditioned as children and not well educated and sometimes it is not a good thing.

Op I understand why you feel as you do

It’s extremely concerning

Just hearing what people are experiencing

This, I worry if a Jewish poster attack me with anti-semitism etc then I wonder what should I name it? I am also human belong to one race/country/ethinic minority which she doesn't even know.

This, I worry if a Jewish poster attack me with anti-semitism etc then I wonder what should I name it? I am also human belong to one race/country/ethinic minority which she doesn't even know.

If a Jewish poster is being anti-semitic to you then you report it, the way you would do with any sort of attack.

They may be holding a field command somewhere under the hospital, but that's their temporary hiding place where they can use the civilians as human shields.

@Commonhousewitch But given that Hamas (and Iran) have repeatedly stated that their aim is to eliminate the State of Israel and murder all Jews it is virtually impossible in terms of the current conflict to disentangle anti-semitism from the issues.

Its also worth pointing out that the first pro-palestinian protest in London took place after the Hamas terrorist attacks on Israel of October 7th and before Israel had responded.

So why don't Israel, with the most technologically advanced army in the world storm the tunnels? So what if they are booby trapped, this is an army. If they want to take Hamas down they need to expect some military deaths too. That's the way war works.
And how are Hamas forcing people to stay? People who left were killed along the way, some can't leave because they literally can't move, and others don't want to leave because the UN are saying its untenable. 14,000 people alone are sheltering in AlQuds hospital.
Hamas are being portrayed as some sort of omnipresent being - they live in tunnels, in people's houses, hospitals, babies incubators, in their minds... a bit of a pattern here I think. But strangely despite 8k deaths, Hamas "can't be reached?".

I live in another western country and we have a much smaller (but growing) population of Jews and Muslims. I work in healthcare and one of my best friends is a psychiatrist who has worked for a volunteer organization that helps refugees. All of them anlmost exclusively innocent victims of war. She wrote a piece for the largest medical journal here that basically stated that these days most victims of war ARE innocent. The landscape of war has changed in modern times. It is not the soldiers or politicians being killed these days, but the women, children and ordinary men trying to live their lives - who are killed, tortured and raped, etc and regardless of ethnicity, politics or religion, everyone pretty much has the same priorities in life. They want their families to be safe, healthy, fed, etc…. My friend has suddenly been spammed by hateful letters from doctors on either side of this debate requesting that she retract her submission because she ISN’T stating a side. These are doctors, ffs.

Aren’t the hostages being held in the tunnels?

You’re trying to write with heavy irony @feralunderclass but actually - yes, basically.

Hamas are a terrorist organisation. Ergo they incite terror. They are, if not everywhere, then in a lot of places and with a lot of control. So while they certainly don’t live in incubators they may well have established infrastructure under civilian buildings. They’ve been known to do that before/in previous conflicts - if you need help finding politically neutral sources confirming this I can dig around later this morning.

So what if they are booby trapped, this is an army. If they want to take Hamas down they need to expect some military deaths too. That's the way war works.

Israel’s military leadership is smart enough to know that tight urban warfare on enemy territory is only going to lead to high losses and drawn out process of attrition. Generally speaking (my entire extended family has been through the IDF, 1965 to the present day) they don’t do “cannon fodder”. It’s just not how they operate. That informs their approach. What they have said publicly is that they are using robots, tunnel blocking technology and dogs in the first instance. Of course they anticipate some military deaths but they seek to minimise them.

In Dagestan, Muslims under the Palestinian flag attack planes from Tel Aviv, searching for Jewish travellers. The same is happening in hotels in the area.
So, yes, you are absolutely right to be frightened.

The West has lost its mind over this issue and what is particularly terrifying is that people can’t seem to see that the Iranian supported Hamas movement is an attack on the western values of democracy, equality and freedom
Many people can ABSOLUTELY see that Hamas is a terror organisation who is against basic western values.
The idea that people who are disgusted by the IDF's decisions are too stupid to realise Hamas are an awful group is insulting.

People are more than capable of holding several views at once.

Only speaking for myself:

• I believe that Israel should exist
• I think the current Israeli government are a liability and think they, and the IDF, view civilians as disposable as long as they can continue flattening Gaza
• I think Hamas are a terror group who have committed disgusting atrocities against Israeli citizens
• I think the ripples of this conflict in terms of antisemitism and islamophobia are going to be felt around the globe
• I think it's about time the people with power and influence stopped playing who has the biggest dick and started meaningfully trying to stop civilians being murdered
• I don't think you can kill a terrorist ideology with bombs and don't believe the way to peace is to have multiple generations growing up with unimaginable trauma

But isn’t that the problem, the Gazans, Iran and a host of other countries do not accept that Israel has a right to exist. So if Israel agrees to a ceasefire it still faces the same problem, its nearest neighbour wants to obliterate it and murder all its citizens. Backed up by international support from some quarters.

I know the Palestinian people and Hamas are not the same but the evidence points to the fact that the residents of Gaza overwhelmingly hold the view that Israel does not have the right to exist.

The West has lost its mind over this issue and what is particularly terrifying is that people can’t seem to see that the Iranian supported Hamas movement is an attack on the western values of democracy, equality and freedom

I don’t know which post this was in first but I agree

We shouldn’t have chants of intifada here on the streets. We all know the destruction and death it brings, we’ve seen it.