Scared to be Jewish

[WibbleWobbleFlop]

I am not pro-IDF or pro-Hamas, in fact I am very strongly against both. Netanyahu's government is an ultra-right wing aggressive shitshow and Hamas is an "elected" group of cowardly murdering terrorists. I am horrified for all Israeli and Palestinian civilians. I can't even begin to imagine how those poor innocent people of Gaza are carrying on, nor how the hostages and families are coping. I want nothing more than Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace side by side in a democratic two-state solution.

I am a secular Jew. I live in the UK. I am supposedly safe, as are my children.

But I don't feel like we will be safe much longer. Hamas wants the annihilation of all Jews, not just the destruction of the state of Israel. It's not about freeing Palestine to them. It is about eliminated an entire ethnicity. My ethnicity.

When Jews were targeted in the Holocaust, it didn't matter if they were religious, Orthodox, or secular. It didn't matter if they were in Poland or Germany or Russia. Jewish blood meant "evil".

Jewish ancestry is traceable. If Hamas gains further popularity in the Middle East (incredibly likely, given their links to Iran and Qatar), there is a real danger for literally every Jew in the world. I am seeing more and more Europeans and Americans leaning so far to the Palestinian side that they want Israel to stop being an accepted state. This gives so much more power to Hamas because any aid sent to Palestine is being spent on weapons and rockets being used against the Jews.

I'm sure I will be told I am overreacting. But I am scared. And I think I have every right to be.

Some people will still disbelieve

I haven't been warning people to call out hate and report hate crimes for no reason. Plus getting annoyed at government responses. These things get to a point then turn very nasty and dark quickly.

If something doesn't change soon we could easily see the tipping point. The type of people that set out to hurt Jews or others need to understand that hate and violence won't be tolerated in Britain.

Quite

Reminds me of this:

"Yeah! He was painting that swastika anti-zionistically not anti-semitically!!!"

They don't understand it - that's the point about those marches. They're not expressing political views others might feel uncomfortable with. They're chanting hate slogans and waving placards supporting, if not advocating violent antisemitism.

Then my answer would be - and actually has been - basically the same (with a different set of people inserted):

Whoever actually marches to the streets, chanting "death to Muslims" (or similar) should be prosecuted and brought to justice. But we cannot compromise the foundations of our democracy because people express opinions we do not like".

Having said that: what you are describing has little to do with what people are actually marching for. A better analogy would be a handful of people shouting "death to muslims" in what is overwhelmingly a "stop immigration" protest. They must be allowed to chant "borders closed now". And, no, I cannot stand right-wing racists and some of the truly disgusting things they tend to think about immigrants. But the way to deal with them is not to destroy our own democracy.

MN have deleted several bigoted posts on this thread alone that promote hatred of Jewish people. It takes a certain kind of bullying attitude to come onto a thread where a Jewish OP shares their fear about being the target of hate and violence and deny the OP's lived experience with a bucket load of whataboutery, victim blaming and silencing. Charming

Indeed. But this thread is not going to help anyone if it decends into fighting. Genuine trolls WANT to fight it’s how they wreak threads like these. That’s why troll hunting or piling on in them (like they give a damn) is never going to work.

@HeidiInTheBigCity I don't think it would "destroy democracy" by banning those who openly declare, on the streets of London, a wish to annihilate Jews.
Our system is surely more robust than that, without a permissive attitude to hate crime.

There are trolls and there are also bot posts. Many of them including on this thread.

@Ginlette agree with you 100%

I'm obviously being naive here but how do you know if it's a bot post? I can suss out quite easily when someone's trolling and spoiling for a fight, but wouldn't be able to spot a bot.

There was over a 100 thousand people on that march
Actually closer to 200 thousand
If a very small minority of racist idiots who are so dim they don't even try and hide their racist views chant such things it does not mean that the rest of the hundred thousand cannot march for a legitimate cause
Those idiots should be found and prosecuted which I believe the met are in the process of doing now after having made some arrests

The weather is getting worse in the UK and I am pretty sure these awful marches will stop soon.
Meanwhile in good news today:

Well, the organisers should have plenty of stewards and make the case clear, because some certainly felt very emboldened.
Anyway. I know that I'm arguing pointlessly. These demos will continue. Hate will continue. I'm sorry, OP, I genuinely hope it gets better for you.

But what happened in London was not 100k people marching and shouting "death to Jews"! What happened was: 100k people - including many Jewish people! - marching and asking for a stop to the relentless bombing, peacefully, and for a free Palestine (which - propagandistic hyperbole notwithstanding - is an altogether different demand than "death to Jews"!).

That is, in fact, a very mainstream opinion! The majority of the British people, according to opinion polls, want a ceasfire.

And while I am not personally aware of any (I have not been in London in recent weeks - but I have been to a lot of protests, on a lot of subjects, including one calling for a ceasefire last weekend, elsewhere), I have no doubt that some idiot, somewhere, will have shouted "death to Jews". Or raised the Hamas flag. Your "obligatory idiot" will be present at any demo of a certain size. I mean, I have been to anti war protests where the "obligatory idiots" called for the assassination of George W. Bush ... I have been to protests on economic issues that have seen the same "obligatory idiots" insisting on vandalising banks. Those people must be prosecuted! But you cannot make a pretty mainstream opinion forbidden. That is deeply undemocratic!

There are trolls and there are also bot posts. Many of them including on this thread

What’s a bot post ?

I was at the March. There were loads of Jewish people marching too. I know that becauSe they had banners specifically saying ‘Jews against genocide’ and ‘Jews say ceasefire now’ etx. I was on the train with two Jewish families on our way to the March and we exchanged pleasantries. It was lovely

Absolutely. When the right to protest was temporarily removed during lockdown there were serious fears about where that could lead. Along with a free press (despite all the problems that brings) the right to protest is a cornerstone of any democratic society.

The unrepeatable things being shouted about 'The Jews' during these demonstrations is hate speech. Hate speech is very much illegal and Jewish people are a protected group under EA legislation. The answer is to prosecute those responsible, not to throw away a fundamental aspect of our own freedoms.

Nothing wrong with marches so long as they stick to the law and are not incitement to violence. However there are clearly pockets of several thousand people on these protests that are inciting violence. Whether that be with offensive signs, shouting hate speech or singing a chant that is a known Hamas cry for the genocide of Jews in Israel.

If people can march without any of the above they the marches are fine. If they cannot act like decent human beings then the police and government need to step up and deal with this. People will get hurt and this will escalate if people think they can get away with this behaviour.

I was there in central London in Saturday HeidiInTheBigCity and heard them chanting 'death to the Jews' so stop minimalising the hatred for Jewish people on our streets please. I am pretty certain (seeing many young people) that they have no notion of history and what their chants lead to.
Incidentally I didn't hear anyone ask for the hostages to be released. Sorry OP but the thread has migrated to the Middle East again! Perhaps it would have been better under Jewish Mumsnetters rather than Talk xxx

And what is your point?

That these are good little Jews or something 🤔

They don't give a damn about the hostages.

I believe you will find the figure is less than a hundred
Nowhere near the several thousand you quote unless you have a source for that
These do not even account for 1% of the attendees
Anti semitism is not OK. And I'm glad these people are being arrested.

If the weather doesn't wash then out, the fact that this part of the conflict will last at least 18 months should do it for the majority

Look at Ukraine, Russia has been taking advantage of this distraction and most people appear to not be bothered any more. Much the same as many other causes we have had.

Anyway at some point only the Cobyn brothers types and the hard-core Jew haters will be out there. Once that happens the numbers mean the police can make more arrests and identify any potentially very radicalised future terrorists amongst them.

The point is that this is a democratic right and people of all faiths and backgrounds joined together to stand up for a valid cause.
Alot of the criticism on the protest was towards the British governments response in not voting for a ceasefire

Faffandahalf I can assure you that while there are many Jewish people who would like an end to the bloodshed the majority would not be marching with Hamas supporters who butchered, raped and tortured 1400 civilians in what was a pogrom.
Instead 15000 of us together with non Jewish friends were at a peace march the previous Saturday asking for all the 229 hostages captured by the terrorists to be freed.
If Hamas wanted peace for the Palestinians they would release the hostages which, may I remind you contain many babies and children. Israel would have to pull out of Gaza or lose the moral ground. But you know Hamas isn't going to do that, don't you. #BringThemHomeNow.