Scared to be Jewish

[WibbleWobbleFlop]

I am not pro-IDF or pro-Hamas, in fact I am very strongly against both. Netanyahu's government is an ultra-right wing aggressive shitshow and Hamas is an "elected" group of cowardly murdering terrorists. I am horrified for all Israeli and Palestinian civilians. I can't even begin to imagine how those poor innocent people of Gaza are carrying on, nor how the hostages and families are coping. I want nothing more than Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace side by side in a democratic two-state solution.

I am a secular Jew. I live in the UK. I am supposedly safe, as are my children.

But I don't feel like we will be safe much longer. Hamas wants the annihilation of all Jews, not just the destruction of the state of Israel. It's not about freeing Palestine to them. It is about eliminated an entire ethnicity. My ethnicity.

When Jews were targeted in the Holocaust, it didn't matter if they were religious, Orthodox, or secular. It didn't matter if they were in Poland or Germany or Russia. Jewish blood meant "evil".

Jewish ancestry is traceable. If Hamas gains further popularity in the Middle East (incredibly likely, given their links to Iran and Qatar), there is a real danger for literally every Jew in the world. I am seeing more and more Europeans and Americans leaning so far to the Palestinian side that they want Israel to stop being an accepted state. This gives so much more power to Hamas because any aid sent to Palestine is being spent on weapons and rockets being used against the Jews.

I'm sure I will be told I am overreacting. But I am scared. And I think I have every right to be.

I only discovered that I have Jewish heritage a few months ago (great grandfather back in the 1880s) so I don’t class myself as Jewish at all but it has prompted a curiosity about the culture and religion. I’ve obviously never experienced any anti semitism but the conflict going on at the moment has opened my eyes to how common it is but also how people try to hide it in an almost sneaky way. Sorry you feel like this (and it’s entirely justified). I just hope there is a swift and peaceful end to the whole thing before more lives on both sides are killed.

Much appreciated, @Trulywonderful. I don't want this thread to turn into yet another Israel/Palestine debate. This is about the ramifications of the conflict to those who don't even live on the same continent, but happen to be linked by birth.

Do you actually believe that you a jew in UK are in danger of hamas ? Because they can trace jews ?
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@immigrant002 Yes, I do. Maybe not now, but in a few years if Hamas gathers more support across the Middle East and extremist supporters in the West. I am also very conscious of the rife anti-Semitism (not just Jews, but Arabs as well) worldwide that is becoming more violent.

I think the op believes that Hamas apologises and supporters in the UK. Are a threat to Jews as we as a rise in Jew hate around the world. Plus the Hamas ex leader when calling for Jihad talked about it Hamas having bigger plans than just Israel/Gaza after victory. He was talking global and that means people like op are bound to be worried about global exsteme Islam considered they are a tad negative about us Jews.

@immigrant002 Do you actually believe that you a jew in UK are in danger of hamas ? Because they can trace jews ?

Do you live under a rock? the Op is sadly right to be scared. We have huge problems here and in Europe with islamic terrorism. Paris Attacks, the London Bombings, Manchester Bombing, Belgium, Charlie Hebdo Attacks. So many yet police allow people to wave the isis flag and chant for jihad openly. Its scary for all of us let alone Jews. If i was Jewish i wouldn't be walking around with any identifiers. Its sad, awful and unfair but i think many of us have been shocked by the anti Jewish sentiment in this country especially on the left.

Why cant Hamas attack here, one of their leaders lives here.

@immigrant002 read about the 23 And Me hack.

And it's not just Hamas. There is a dangerous degree of antisemitism playing out across Europe. I'm not saying we are being individually hunted down but why should we feel unsafe going to synagogue, going to a BarMitzvah, at school, in my local bakery for gods sake. And yes, I've felt nervous in all those places and on the tube this week.

Diminish it all you like and then walk in my shoes for a week. I am the least high drama person you'll ever meet, if anything I'm the person downplaying risks to the community but you have no idea what it feels like to be Jewish right now.

personally feel hamas said that in context of all jews in world has right to have piece of land in Israel/westbank etc. So if you are feared that responsibility goes to who caused for it right?

I now think one of my school buddy could be jews, am dreading to ask. worried that she would be willing to move than I worried about risk for her from hamas. This is all because of the news that Jews around her waiting to migrate and settle.

if my friend is Jew, I wish her to stick with her current home country and people. You have two choices like anyone else over here. Forget about Israel and hamas and live your life. OR worry about hamas and join hands with others who wants hamas and gaza to be their prisoners.

Should we be careful about this user name 'immigrant002'.

If someone was trying to make mumsnet posters think all immigrants hold antisemitic or unkind views would they not make a user name like this???

Sorry immigrant002 if you are a real person but the name makes my head ring alarm bells that you are in fact an anti immigrants type trying to be sly

I’m in a comparable position OP, and feel the same. It’s not that I think Hamas is going to open a south London office, it’s that what’s happening in the ME has led to a demonstrable rise in antisemitism and Islamophobia across the world - and that does affect me directly.

Whilst I do understand your anxiety as much as any outsider can, please be assured that most of us at least can separate Israeli political and military acts from Judaism. One is a religion the other is a country. I can also separate Hamas from Islam.

As an expression of peace and hope my friend (Christian Vicar in dog collar) march holding hands with his local iman and local rabbi on Saturday, behind them were people of all faiths and none. I like many want peace and care deeply for the innocent and that includes you op, my prayers may not seem to be being answered but I have to keep faith that someone will bring this situation to a resolution

Jewish weddings at the synagogue need security. Paid for by the bride and groom..was told that by the synagogue.

I'm so sorry that you and other Jewish people in UK are having to deal with this OP 💐

We also don't feel safe - particularly when we have Jews in our community, who are pillars of our community tweeting about how they are "normal Jews and not Orthodox Jews"...

We have been insulted on the tube, we've had to make changes to our lives, and have increased security in and around our home/garden.

As an expression of peace and hope my friend (Christian Vicar in dog collar) march holding hands with his local iman and local rabbi on Saturday,

That’s lovely to read.

Jewish ancestry is traceable. If Hamas gains further popularity in the Middle East (incredibly likely, given their links to Iran and Qatar), there is a real danger for literally every Jew in the world.

But for every person in the UK who is considered Jewish under rabbinical law, there must be many others who have some Jewish ancestry. My maternal grandfather was Jewish and an Ancestry DNA test was able to indicate that I have some Jewish ancestry. Several of my friends have a Jewish grandparent or great-grandparent. It’s very common.

I don’t know how many people in the world are of Jewish descent, but it must be many millions. I don’t believe we’re going to be wiped out, not least because some of the people who supposedly wanted this would get a shock when their own ancestry was traced.

I cannot begin to understand how it must feel to know that people who would seek to wipe out your ethnic group are shouting so loudly and being supported blindly by so many.

I cannot diminish the fear you feel and the anxiety that is welling.

i can understand the history and the deep seated emotions this must raise.

i will stand against antisemitism in all its forms across the world. And if I see it before me I will call it out.

At the same time the majority of British Jews are Zionists (57% according to one survey). While being Zionist does not mean endorsing the bombing of civilians or supporting the corrupt and incompetent Israeli government, Zionism is a form of nationalism and there is an element of tribalism... In addition, many Jews in the UK see being Jewish as being part of an ethnoreligious group and for many supporting Israel is a manifestation of Jewish identity. For me it isn't but that is because I am a convert so perhaps less emotionally invested in the marketing though I do care deeply about my family in Israel. For many (predominantly) progressive rabbis, it isn't because to be Jewish means to believe in tikkum olam (repair the world) which is also the more universalist interpretation of Judaism I subscribe to... But I wouldn't say I am the norm, I have given up discussing Israel with many of my friends and family cos it would end up in a fight.... They have a lot of sympathy for the Palestinians and see them as fellow humans but at the same time they feel this is existential (basically Israel is repeating the same mistakes as 9/11 and they are not seeing it just like the American people didn't see it at that time)..this is painful for both sides and sometimes I don't really know what to say or think..

I live in east London and I see a lot of Jewish families out and about. I have no idea how they must feel. Ifs absolutely awful - one thing is being pro-Palestinians in a way that they should not be bombed, should have their own country etc - but I have a horrible feeling this conflict made antisemitism completely acceptable and valid, and a lot of people chanting "from river to the sea" are doing so knowing perfectly well that it means eradication of Israel. I have seen the demonstrations, and as I keep saying on these threads - there is nothing, absolutely nothing condemning attacks on Israel or call to release the hostages. In fact, I have seen footage of people pulling off posters of the hostages, or defacing them with "occupier" stickers. Its horrendous. There are two sides in this conflict, not one - its a war...people should not forget this. Islamophobia and antisemitism are equally vile and should not be tolerated.

The amount of anti Semitism I've seen on social media in the last three weeks is horrifying. It's not just the amount, it's utterly vicious and there is no pretence.

And a lot of it is coming from Westerners.

I don't think you're overreacting.

I hear you

The real question is how many demonstrations are there against Russia hating on Russians and in support of Ukraine? None.

Are Russians in England incessantly being given a hard time about Ukraine? Nope.

So why all this hating on Israel and Jews?

Oh wait!!!

OP, this too shall pass, hopefully soon, please know that the majority of British people do not support Hamas /Free Palestine trolls, some of whom are completely unhinged, we can see exactly what is going on and are working privately in the background to support our fellow Jewish citizens to feel happy, safe and appreciated.

@StarbucksSmarterSister I have heard absolutely vile comments about "jews have all the money and control" - from seemingly normal person who obviously felt like they can make this comments because of the conflict. I have also been asked "who's side are you on" - also vile. I have been abused in my homeland because I "look Jewish" - I'm not - and I still remember the horror and the unfairness of it.

I have a huge family and one branch of it is actually Jewish. And I'm scared for my Jewish friends and relatives, tbh.

Whilst I do understand your anxiety as much as any outsider can, please be assured that most of us at least can separate Israeli political and military acts from Judaism. One is a religion the other is a country. I can also separate Hamas from Islam
I agree with this.

My concern is that if the Israeli government insists on pursuing the eradication of the Palestinian people in Gaza, cutting comms, and going for a scorched earth approach then there for all the citizens who can separate Israeli government decisions from Judaism, a lot of less-informed people are liable to being radicalised into antisemitic views because to those with less understanding of world events they will hear some of the IDF rhetoric and think they are speaking for Jewish people.

I'm Jewish and I hope you can find a place of less anxiety. Obviously all this is horrible and worrying, but I don't think there is a need (yet) to catastrophise about 'might bes'. Have I sat in synagogue and considered what I'd do if I heard gunshots outside? Yes. Do I think that's actually likely to happen? No, not really. The possibility is horrible. The likelihood is essentially still low. The number of Muslim people living relatively comfortable lives in Europe or the US who would actually be prepared to essentially end their lives to kill Jews is not going to be very many. This is why we don't see ISIS types carrying out attacks in Europe and the US regularly, but you might see it in poorer, Muslim-majority countries where this extremism (and it is extremism because Islam is not like that as a whole at all) can thrive more easily.

Sadly in places like Palestine the situation has created a larger (though still not huge) proportion of people desperate, hopeless and angry enough to commit the atrocities that happened and their 'enemy' is next door. But forces like Hamas will never find many people prepared to go that far outside of their sphere to the degree that it would form an existential risk.

I hope you understand I'm not saying this to have a go at your fears, I'm hoping it might be reassuring.

I hear you. I've been worried about growing antisemitism for a while.