Stop this insanity

[Zzbutton]

This has to stop. No debates about which side is right or wrong. Come on people no one with any shred of humanity can surely say what is happening in Gaza right now is ok under ANY justification. I’m absolutely heartbroken to see the world just watching and doing nothing. And getting angrier by the day. I’m in Ireland and thank god our government is calling for what’s right. But they are not doing enough. No one is. There is no politics or background or religion or any moral reason on this planet that makes what’s happening ok. If you think so I think that’s appalling. Each individual needs to do something to say NO to this slaughter, aside from what beliefs you hold about who the ‘good and bad guys’ are.

100% agree. This is how I cope. I've shown zero difference in my care for colleagues from both sides of this conflict. I've focused on making sure they feel they have support while both their families are being bombed. Can't believe I'm even saying that sometimes....it's so sad.

Nothing you, OP, nor I do makes a difference to the bigger picture. Posters who point out that this is the whole of human history are correct. So where was your indignation last year, ten years ago, where was your indignation for Rwanda, for 9/11, for Ukrainian children abducted by Russia?
The only thing this thread is about is that you have woken up to something. In Buddhism this moment is called the path of vision, but it's followed by the path of transformation which is basically the slog of the rest of your life with your eyes open to suffering instead of closed and with your fingers in your ears going lalala.
You have no control whatsoever over the actions of others. Zilch. You are just making a noise.
Go do the inner work. BE the change. BE the peace. There's nowt else.
I wish you well.

It's awful, but I heard someone say 'we don't have the right to give up hope.' While Palestinians are still striving to survive, to operate with torches because the electricity has gone, to dig their children out from the rubble with their bare hands, while doctors refuse to leave their patients even when they may be bombed, while they post footage and write articles and try to talk to us so the world can see they are human beings like us, while they keep going with a courage I can't imagine summoning - we must keep trying to help and not give up. There are petitions on petition parliament UK. Please sign them if you agree we need a ceasefire so aid can enter safely. There's a thread on writing to your MP with a message you can copy and paste. There are charities to donate to. There are marches and vigils all over the country.

Care to provide any proof?

There were several witness testimonies shared on one of these threads yesterday, including one from a Muslim journalist who had seen the footage filmed by the terrorists which was shared with the international press. Go and look.

Are you just spreading an antisemitic conspiracy theory across multiple threads now?

The Rothschilds are a wealthy Jewish family in the USA who are major philanthropists not surprisingly some of their donations have gone to Israel

It's not some dark secret - you read it on Wikipedia

The family name is also a by-word for anti-semitic conspiracy theorists and I think you are contributing to that

I don't think we are sleep walking towards armageddon now I think there are some remarkably arrogant politicians in the US and Israel who think they can start something and then decide how it's ends.

Israel has no friendly neighbours, American bases in Syria and Iraq are currently being damaged by Iranian bombing as a warning, when Iran decides they have issued enough warnings and/or the US bombs their oil fields, as some warmongers in the states are urging the Biden administration to do, they will stop warning and annihilate those bases. The US will have no staging posts from which to assist Israel apart from their air craft carriers in the eastern med which Putin will deal with. Israel will be attacked from all sides. It seems strange to me that the people proclaiming Israel has a right to self defence could be cheerleading for actions which could result in its destruction.

Israel is unlikely to win decisively against Hamas in Gaza. An Israeli reconnaissance mission in northern Gaza a few days ago did not end well for the Israelis. They continue to bomb the shit out of Gaza as if there were no lessons to be learned from Stalingrad. I feel sorry for any of the reservists who are being given false confidence about the likelihood of success, many of them, along with many, many more civilians will not survive a ground invasion.

I keep hoping someone with some sense will listen to military experts with relevant combat experience and step back from the edge but that doesn't seem to be happening. I'd like to think we could protest against our government committing resources to a suicide mission but it didn't stop them in 2003 and I don't think it will stop them now.

Apparently Putin has met with both Hamas and Iran (reported in the Telegraph).
Several US airstrikes in Syria now.

Biden has queried the reported casualty rates from Gaza because of the source (health ministry being a Hamas-run body).

And it doesn't matter that Hamas do bad things if Israel are also doing bad things

The callous inhumanity of this statement is astounding.

All you can do is try and spread as much kindness as possible as an individual to offset some of the absolute horror of which human beings are capable

I'm inclined to agree with this.

I think we all need to strive to fight really hard to hold onto our humanity for all people, and not turn our minds and hearts away from the suffering of any one group. Not even, and in fact especially not even, in favour of another. When multiple groups are suffering they all deserve our humanity.

This mindset of ' well what happened to this group is bad but understandable and context, but look over here at what is happening to this group!' is the sort of tribal mentality that eventually leads to these atrocities and conflicts.

I really hope we are not entering a new era of major international armed conflict in the world. But its starting to look like that after the unusual era of relative peace after WW2.

Especially when Hamas, and the thousands of Gazan civilians who joined them on their spree, have taken "bad things" to such a stratospherically new level that I'm gobsmacked at the steadfast refusal here to see the need to stop them.

philanthropists should have settled other relegions same way in the area. I am confused.

I don't think anyone thinks they don't need to be stopped but the consequences of collectively punishing Gazan civilians could exceed what Israel anticipated.

How many people are you willing to sacrifice to stop an idea? Sure you can kill the people working for Hamas but in doing so you strengthen the ideology.

How many cities are you prepared to see reduced to rubble?

What are the limits for death and destruction in pursuit of a futile endeavour?

US representatives were in Qatar yesterday trying to negotiate kicking Hamas out of the country

Not as dramatic as turning Gaza into a car park but important and overlooked

Unfortunately I agree with this.

It would be quicker and less futile if the "innocent Gazan civilians" helped root out the monster in their midst...? Bit naive to hope for that, though.

The awful whataboutery in the first paragraph of this comment. How do you know where we were and what we were all doing for Ukraine, for Rwanda or 9/11? I am sure the majority of posters on this thread were equally appalled and vocal about them. But it is irrelevant - going on "where were you then...." is a convenient distraction away from the original point of the OP.

Why shouldn't we raise our voices in protest? Speaking up about these atrocities (such as in threads like this) helps tell our government that we won't sit idly by, informs our politicians that we won't tolerate their complicity in war crimes, and raises public awareness. The Palestinian people desperately need their voices amplified and heard, and the crimes of the Israeli govt need to be seen. We may not be able to directly influence the Israeli govt but by protesting, marching and raising awareness it helps shift global opinions and hopefully eventually politicians. This strategy has helped in situations like apartheid South Africa, so you can't say it doesn't work.

What indeed is the point of any activism? By your suggestion nobody should bother trying to help because there's no point. I disagree. By all means try not to get too emotionally upset about it, but protest away, I say. Threads like these ARE useful, even if comments like the above unhelpfully distract from the nefarious actions of the Israeli govt and try to persuade people they have no power and using whataboutery as a distraction technique.

You didn't answer the question and you passed the responsibility to a group of civilians who are currently struggling for survival under a relentless bombardment.

I'm sure you can see how ridiculous your suggestion is but like far too many people you are hypnotised by the fantasy of ridding the world of the evil that is Hamas at any price.

How many people would you accept dying in an attempt to dismantle an idea?

How many countries would accept getting dragged into this war?

How many cities would you accept bring reduced to rubble?

Bit naive?

Surely you are joking have you no understanding of what is happening

They are simply trying to stay alive atm not rise up in revolution/dob in Hamas

International law of armed conflict doesn't distinguish categories of civilians who are more or less innocent, more or less deserving, in terms of who should be protected. If you have not personally taken up arms ie you are currently a non- combatant, you are a civilian. It matters not whether you are a political supporter or opponent of an armed group or state government; they all count the same as any other civilian and merit the same protection under international humanitarian law.

Civilians may not be directly targeted. Indiscriminate attacks that can't distinguish between military and civilian targets are prohibited. Attacks that disproportionately harm civilians are also prohibited and a war crime. Proportionality is determined by whether the expected incidental loss of civilian life would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage expected to be gained from dropping that bomb or whatever it may be. (Note that proportionality is nothing to do with the relative number of lives lost to date on one side versus the other. Nor does the conduct of the other side, or whether you are acting in self defence, play into the proportionality assessment.) Using civilians as human shields is a war crime, but involuntary human shields are still civilians (the Israeli High Court has affirmed this principle) and the actions of the people holding them don't relieve attackers of their responsibilities still to minimise harm to civilians and apply the principle of proportionality. Sieges may only be directed against military objectives and combatants, and the deliberate starvation of civilians, including impeding relief supplies, is prohibited. State actors must allow the unimpeded passage of humanitarian relief. Forcible displacement of civilians is unlawful.

The law of armed conflict applies equally to both belligerent parties, and it's not disapplied if the other side commit outrages and war crimes in breach of international law. The law applies irrespective of value judgments about the justice of each parties' cause and past behaviour. The law applies regardless of all whataboutery regarding civilian death tolls in past conflicts, or other countries' conduct in history.

It was a whimsical suggestion. Genuinely curious to know how you think Israel should be tackling the threat on its doorstep?