If you are pro Israel when is enough killing enough?

[TakeMe2Insanity]

Plenty of people have repeated “1400 Israeli’s were killed on 7/10”, but when is actually enough? The count is above 5000 in Gaza alone. Seriously when is enough enough?

You have quoted me and responded with a large list stating that "Israel's position is very clear"

I am not talking about that.

The sentence you quoted is goodness knows how anyone can defend what is happening.

As in, people. Regular people defending what is happening.

It is concerning how some people are quite content with people being killed. Starved. Hospitals being targeted. People starving. Babies being born prematurely and then passing away due to malnutrition and a whole host of other causes.

It is almost as though some people seem to think some other lives aren't worth as much....

Anyway, as for the "... while Israel does what it can to minimise civilian losses" that is somewhat at odds with the actual reality of things.

How anyone can sit back and defend aid trucks not being allowed is really bizarre. How charitable of some individuals to be happy with that.

Yesterday Israel declared Another ground offensive , this time to the only place they declared to be a safe zone for all Gazans , Rafah,
this is so alarming and will result in beyond catastrophic consequences if no international powers step up and put a step to it this madness the literally have no place to go.
Its no longer about Hamas or finding Hostages at this stage , this is expulsion and genocidal acts.

When @TakeMe2Insanity made this thread the death toll was at 5,000.
Its now almost six times that and closer to 30,000 deaths.
More than 12,000 children dead and over 60,000 Palestinians injured.
More than a 1,000 children who have had to have atleast one limb amputated

It is horrific and unjustifiable

@Ladyjanegreysketle Israel's position is very clear and minimising civilian deaths is definitely not part of it. Thankfully more and more countries are beginning to question and criticise its position and hopefully this will lead to more and more pressure to cease the killing, maiming, starving and displacement of innocent civilians. You gave a long list of terrorist organisations in the ME but why do innocent Palestinians have to pay the price of defeating them? (if at all possible). Anyone at this stage that can justify the current Israeli tactics is obviously as blood thirsty as the Netanyahu government and has a very questionable moral compass

Ageee completely. This was the first time in a few days I have done so and I won't be bothering again. Waste of time. It was first thing this morning and after seeing countless reports of casualties to then see someone replying with a whole speel like that was a serious you know what moment.

Far too many people justifying these horrendous crimes. Not worth the effort of responding to these types

I know exactly. I've done it loads in the past but anyone still defending the IDF or the state of Israel at this stage... I won't say any more because it would probably break forum rules.

for Some people there is first class deaths and 3 class deaths

not worth replying to those that see it like that

@BackandForthRoundandRound "I am not talking about that."

So what are you talking about?

"The sentence you quoted is goodness knows how anyone can defend what is happening."

What does that ^ mean ? What sentence I quoted? I quoted quite a bit 🤔

@Ladyjanegreysketle I think the question being asked is not "what justification does the Israeli government or military give for their actions?", but rather "how can any person outwith those entities look at what is happening and defend or support it?".

Thanks for trying to clarify the question.

As I see it, the world today is a lot 'smaller' than it was during previous wars. In WW2 we didn't have reporters/drones/TV stations in the 'front line' bringing us all the horrors and carnage that results from a war, on a day to day basis, into our living rooms.

Germany defeated and occupied Poland (attacked in September 1939), Denmark (April 1940), Norway (April 1940), Belgium (May 1940), the Netherlands (May 1940), Luxembourg (May 1940), France (May 1940), Yugoslavia (April 1941), and Greece (April 1941).

In order to defeat the Nazis and stop their advance across Europe the Allies killed 67,000 German civilians in bombing raids.

1,600 were killed in the Dambuster raids alone.

Nazi Germany attacked the Soviet Union in June 1941 (their biggest mistake of the war). It took the country four years and a tremendous military and civilian effort to achieve victory. About seventeen million Soviet citizens died in WW2, the largest death toll of any country. The victory was possible due to greater willpower (Soviet citizens defended their own country against an invader with genocidal plans) but also bigger industrial and human reserves.

A quarter of the people in the Soviet Union were wounded or killed.

Because of the sacrifices made by others, we now have the ability to live in free society and post on forums instead of being under the Nazi Jackboot.

Would people posting on this forum prefer that UK had rolled over and let us be invaded? Would they rather be now ruled by a genocidal, elitist, fascist regime that started by murdering gypsies/vagrants/children with mental & physical disabilities?

The Holocaust didn't start with the Gas Chambers - it started with the so-called Nazi Euthanasia Program which targeted for murder Germans with mental and physical disabilities. It claimed the lives of an estimated 250,000 people, many of them children, by 1941.

Were the casualties and horrendous death toll of WW2 (bothy civilian and military) a fair price to pay for stopping the Nazi Killing Machine?

Does that mean that you think what's happening is ok?

Why don't you answer my question first?

Well, I'm just checking I've understood your post, @Ladyjanegreysketle .It reads to me like you're equating this conflict and the second world war, and then saying something about the justification of casualties in the second world war - are you meaning to say that you consider the two conflicts to be equivalent and therefore that you would justify the current situation in Gaza using the same reasoning?

If the IDF mount a ground offensive in Rafah I think international support will cease.

It is really frightening. 12 children killed in a bombing in Rafah today including a 3 month old.

Just seen an interview with Netanyahu asking him if he feels Palestine should have their own State. He clearly replied 'NO'

that was in 1978. He has been looking for the perfect excuse to totally destroy Palestine and ethnically cleanse the whole region- and take over. 1978

What is happening now, what is being done to the Palestinians- ensures that that will be the case. No doubt about that.

And why is it ok to kill thousands of innocent Palestinians now? It is clear that for some, some lives are worth so so much more, whilst other lives count for nothing.

The question posed by the OP was 'when is the killing enough?' .

It wasn't clear whether the question related to a moral issue or a tactical issue.

(I quoted WW2 as that is the only conflict I know much about.)

The war will cease once Israel no longer faces a security threat from its neighbour.

Israel will stop fighting once it has destroyed Hamas's munitions, tunnels and weapons. Israel will keep fighting until its hostages are returned and Hamas is no longer a legitimate threat. This past week tens of rockets were sent over from Hamas into Israel so Israel still has some work to do.

Tragically many innocent civilians are being killed in Gaza. Regardless to what you think and what Instagram might show you, Israel is trying to minimise civilian casualties. Urban warfare always means civilians get trapped in the crosshairs. This tragedy is multiplied exponentially when Hamas intentionally fight from populated areas.

So whilst you may hear on Instagram and Twitter "Israel bombed a hospital (!!)" What you didn't hear was that moments before that an RPG and Hamas snipers were attacking Israel from that hospital. That hospital is no longer protected under international law and there is nothing unlawful about Israel bombing it. Hamas would be entirely to blame for the bombing of that hospital as they were defying humanitarian law by attacking from it. So yes blame Hamas is a legitimate response when someone asks for why is there such a high civilian causality. Israel does not want to carry out genocide. Hamas has no qualms to.

So if you are really looking for peace for all perhaps start a thread called "What will it take Hamas to ceasefire!?"

“Israel is trying to minimise civilian casualties.”
What was the reason behind hind”s death? A targeted one and the paramedics that were sent to save her

a lie told a thousand times is still a lie

How do you feel about the ground offensive niceandnew? Isnt Rafah the one place Israel has been saying Gazans need to go to for their safety?
They promised that it’s a safe zone ,
made quite the display with QR code and leaflets,
more than a million people fled to that tiny designated corner on foot for hours and waving white flags .

don’t you feel it doesn’t sound right ? that it’s too extreme?

This is no longer a War , even wars have rules that protect the civilians.

So What are they supposed to do now ? Jump into the freezing med?

Perfect tactic- tell thousands upon thousands to go South to a limited area, to be safe. And once they get there, somehow- without any food, water, shelter, medicines, etc, etc,- once they are all there huddled together- perfect time to bomb the hell out of them. Perfect

perfectly sick and inhumane, and totally illegal too.

You are mistaken -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68256510

Evacuate to where FFS!

@EasterIssland "What was the reason behind hind”s death? A targeted one and the paramedics that were sent to save her"

Maybe shot by Hamas as a 'false flag'?

Ever thought of that?

Hamas will do anything to discredit Israel and get international sympathy.

Israel has previously accused Hamas of using ambulances to transport its weapons and fighters.