To TTC or not to TTC, that is the question... as Hamlet sort of said about something else entirely

[CHW]

Hi,
Had few glasses of wine and have spent large part of the evening on this site. I am in two minds about a baby - or really, at the age of 35 (but Type 1 diabetic which can complicate thingss) and really ought to make a decision about whether to have a family or not.
I worry about cost, the changes it will make to our lives and, well, if I am actually just happy as I am. Me and DH discussed going for it, so to speak, sometime after the start of Aug (as did the London Triathlon before then so couldn't before then) and decided we would once the triathlon was out the way. Now it is and we are both stalling. But it is playing on both our minds - in the do we, or don't we way.

My babyometer keeps going haywire - any tips or things for me to also consider which may help us make a decision. I am also wondering if we are simply analysing things too much but beeing diabetic makes things more complicated (ie they need to be planned, in an ideal world at least.) Any help or food for thoughts would be MASSIVELY appreciated!

Evening all,

Quick update from me. I had my repeat blood test today. The nurse was very nice and checked before she took the blood what she would be testing for. I think there must have been a note on my record in VERY LARGE LETTERS! . Results should be back in about a week. However, I am still waiting for DH to make his appointment at the urology dept to re-submit his sample (boys, they are rubbish, its not like I can do it for him, he has to sort this one out himself!) so it looks like it will be another couple of weeks before we get all our test results back and can get our referral.

Confused - I think you sum up our TTC dilemas perfectly, we either can't decide, don't have circumstances conducive to decision making or, if we have decided we want to procreate, can't bloody well do it!

Oooh, YTD, hope your DH gets his act togehter sharpish too! How long does it take for his sample to be analysed too? Is his more immediate? I agree that men can be rubbish with these things, although mine at the moment seems to have gone the other way and is there all the time (slight exaggeration) as he's convinced he's gluten intolerant. I hope you were very brave with the blood test - I am the opposite! And get pissed off with people remarking on how weird it must be for me to freak out at blood tests but not at injections - the injections I do myself are 8mm and into subcutaenous fat, not in a bloody vein - and my veins are both small and hard to get at, trust me many have tried!

Talking of medical stuff, do GP's surgeries have to hit certain targets re patients? I ask as mine have contacted me for a 'Diabetic Interim Review' - I last saw someone re diabetic stuff, the preconception woman at the hospital would couldn't understand why they'd sent me as I am so well controlled (smug!) and so surely don't need to see someone at the GP's under 4 months later? Apparently so, according to the receptionist, who then added that they can't keep writing out prescriptions without seeing me 'regularly.' As the nurse at the GP's (nice woman but utterly crap) is always trying to send me on courses, have tests for things like coelic (sp?) and so on I am wondering if they have to see a certain number of their diabetic patients regardless of their control? And do they have to have a certain number go on these courses, for example, too regardless of the fact the patient is managing perfectly without? It's a pain in the bloody arse!

We have had a depressing evening looking at houses in Hebden Bridge. All of the one's in our meagre pricerange are either on main-ish roads, too small, tiny nasty kitchens (and no scope to make them bigger or much better other than cosmetic) and so on. As we have two cats and a dog we can't be in a main road, and really do need a yard or similar as know the idea of having to get dressed and walk up and down the street every time the dog wants a wee will get very tedious. (Sunday morning when it's freezing for example.)

Oooh! I've just seen I have my own face - look!

Hi all, long day at work and just got out of bath, so a quickie from me too, and will catch up properly soon. Am pretty tired, apologies if what follows is nonsense...

LST, what a difficult, difficult situation. I hope the aftermath of your IVF meeting does not go as you fear, I know all too well how such discussions can play out -one minute all is calm, the next all heck has broken loose and tears are falling. Your comment about regretting not having a child in the future seems to gave struck a cord with many of us.

Confused, perfect summation of all our current thoughts and struggles, I think. We all seem to be encountering a proportion of a list of troubles that are interfering with either our freedom to make a decision or to get on with TTC. Sigh. Also, hope you get sent more photos.

YTD, hooray that you got the repeat bloods done. Shame DH hasn't repeated his sample yet, men huh!

Suerock, that completely sucks, what rubbish timing. And how crap of them to keep you in the dark for now. Pants. Fingers crossed for some good news to follow.

(I really do think it's weird that so many of us find ourselves in similar situations)

SeaGreen, how is the head?? Between you and Confused there are a lot of paracetamol tablets and flat lemonade lying around the thread at the moment. Good work, ladies!

HP! How dare you? Paracetamol and flat lemonade indeed, humph!

Cannot add anything baby (or unbaby) related today. S went in for second chemo only to instead be given a bloody transfusion as his something or other is 7 and needs to be around 13. He is also meant to be having a portal attached to his chest (like a line into the artery) but this too has been put back due to the blood counts so he has been nil by mouth all day for no reason. I suspect he is now wanting steak or similar (be good for his iron levels too.) Talking of his food, he has been advised to have lots of junk food, little and often. While I can see the idea behind it (lots of calories to keep weight up) it doesn't seem the best way surely? I mix of full fat but nutritious stuff would be better, surely? Lastly, he has decided he is going to donate his body to science. This is a lovely lovely idea (help others blah blah blah) but I do find it quite upsetting all the same. Think it's the idea of him being in a cold drawer being prodded and stared at rather than sprinkled in his favourite place (ashes, obviously) or in a wicker coffin by a nice tree etc etc.

Sorry to just talk about cancer stuff, it's a bit hard not to at the moment.

I should be ovulating around tomorrow/Friday, and have a job interview Friday morning! Which if i got, would be a huge improvement to our lives and set us up even better for starting a family. To BD or not to BD??? THAT is the question. Was so looking forward to using my ovulation sticks etc, now i'm feeling it would be silly to TTC if they were to offer me the job.

Hello...? Helllooooo?
We've all gone quiet. Very quiet. I take it that nobody else has anything interesting to say either then?

I have been on this website on and off all bloody day - I think it's addictive - and keep dipping into the childbirth / pregnancy threads in an interested but not enough to do it myself way. HP I have also found you on one of the threads talking about diabetes and the two types. As ridiculous as this sounds, I forget that we all might be posting on other threads too! (Doh!) I guess you can't go into too much detail over what you specifically do in your job, although I am interested if you do want to share a bit more...?

I was talking to DH last night about MN and he was asking me how it all worked. This was prompted by us sitting in the pub (not drinking, as having a month off, but we were sick of being in the house so went for a 'drink' after walking the dog) and being surrounded, or at least it felt like that, small children. Our local is 'pretty much anything friendly' and so there were two mums and their 4 DC's (one was a baby so on the mum's lap) who were messing about in the pool room. (It was about 5pm so not late.) One of the kids, about 8 I think, was stood looking at us with a grin on his face and then, when we opened a packet of crisps, reached over and grabbed one asking 'can I have a crisp' at the same time. I was quite taken aback which is why I didn't instantly say 'no' and make sure he didn't. It's not that I am especially posessive over my bar snacks, but it was the principle of him leaning and grabbing; it would be rude even if he knew us but we'd never seen one another before. His mum told him he shouldn't do that, but halfheartedly - I would have made him apologise as well as apologise myself if he were mine. He then did it again about ten mins later but I saw it coming and pushed his hand out the way saying 'no you can't!'
The reason I have written all this ramble is because it has made me wonder if I would also turn into someone who didn't really care too much what their child was doing as I was too busy enjoying the fact I was in the pub, and making the most of being in the pub doing adult things rather than children things? And also, if I would be someone who'd take their child to the pub in the first place? As I don't have children, I am not keen on children being in pubs (they are surely adult places only) in the first place (however, as I have a dog I think they are should all be very dog friendly which not everyone agrees with!) I think pubs are very dull for children and bored children (and subsequent noise or whatever) isn't great for the other people in the pub with no DC's. But! Am I saying that as I don't have any children and therefore can go to the pub whenever I like...? And would I be saying something totally different if I had children?

Hello there! I'm totally here, the reason I haven't posted on my favourite thread today is I have a lot to talk about, some slightly Big News (no, I'm not going to claim the cardie!!!) and I wanted to type it out and reply to everyone posts properly, on the lap top.

So, I will be back soon, once I've eaten and got settled.

HP-SP xx

Oooh! Sounds exciting! I'm waiting with baited breath! x

ps Bugger - I was excited then about the cardie claiming!!

While I am waiting for the update (!) from HP-SP I just want to pick everyone's brains. I have just bought this dress for a wedding we're going to in April. I am thinking of doing it up a bit - ie embellishing the flowers with, perhaps, beading, edging them in ribbon, or even sewing on sequins (as long as it doesn't look too home made!) I am lacking in both sewing skills and patience so I need it to be quite simple and not too fiddly (rapid progress makes me keep going whereas messing about for hours on end just makes me frustrated). Any ideas?

Im back, and can type a bit easier! Waiting for tea to cook.....

At risk of being totally self absorbed, and because I may have built it up a bit, I may as well cut to the chase. It may not be a big deal for many, but I know you will all understand what this means for me....DH and I have decided that I will come off the pill!!! And not some time in the future, but next week . Now, admittedly, the plan is to use condoms instead, so its not like we are actually [whisper] TTC, but I feel like this is a Big Deal. It all came about because I have a slight medical issue that there is some evidence that the pill exacerbates (dont worry, nothing serious). After an appointment I had this week, I mentioned it to DH today, and he just said, look, why dont you come off the pill and see how you feel? So really, it came more from him. We had a calm, positive chat about it and decided to do it, although he said it was 'my body, my final decision' kind of thing.

But thats not the weirdest bit. I said 'if I come off the pill, I think it might be a good idea to start taking folic acid, just in case of accidents' and DH agreed totally!! So, I bought some folic acid today and am going to start taking it!! And regards accidents, he said that he is happy to take full responsibility for anything that happens and he will be ok with it, in a dealing with it if it accidently happened, kind-of-way.

So of course, Im really worried now about losing my precious level of control, but have to say I am fascinated as to what is going to happen. I last ovulated 17 years ago! After spending too much some time reading threads on MN, I realise that nothing may happen for months, so it will be a case of waiting to see. Im not looking forward to PMT and cramps, as well as unexpected arrivals, as per my last experiences!

Well, what do you all think? I realise its not that big a thing, but I feel it is for me, personally, and us both as a couple.

As for posting on other threads, I generally dont, apart from this week, when I have been unfaithful on a couple . The diabetes one came about by accident, because I saw another poster make a comment that Type 1 Diabetes 'Is not hereditary', which I felt compelled to correct, for the sake of having the correct information 'out there'. Now, this does reveal my scientific background, which I havent mentioned at all given lovely Confused's personal experiences with the condition. But my previous job was working in a group that investigated the genetic causes of T1D, so I know a leetle bit about it, and by association, T2 as well. If you want to talk about it more, feel free, I think I have outed myself to anyone reading MN that knows me by now anyway!! As for my current role, reading your post about S I can take an educated punt that if something should be 13 and is now 7, and he needs a transfusion, it is likely to be his haemoglobin levels, so he has gone a bit anaemic. Haemoglobin is in red blood cells, it carries oxygen and is one parameter you can measure with a full blood count. Tell hime to keep eating that steak!

Right, have to go and scoff my tea now....back soon (DH is eying me wondering why all the typing is going on).

Oh my bloody goodness! That's fabulous news! I realise it doesn't mean you are 'going for it', so to speak, but, my god, it's a step in that direction! Also, and possibly more importantly, it must surely mean that your DDH is getting into the swing of things more too - am I right or wrong in assuming that it must have been going round his head for quite a while before he first mentioned it?!

I KNEW you'd be the first BFP on this thread, I just knew it!!

And tsk you being unfaithful and posting on others! I realise this is very naive etc, but I often forget others may read this thread too! (And that's despite the occassional post from other people too!)

S is now home and, I presume, feeling somewhat bulletproof due to the steriods and the transfusion. Is it 'normal' to get so anaemic, and is it the chemo? Is this something relatively easily helped or alleviated? Please share what you know!

So, T1D - is it genetic or isn't it? I am the only one in my family to have it (and no type 2ers either) but my dad's mother had pancreatis (sp) which is the only, albeit vague, connection.

By the way, I too was expecting cramps and lots of other horribleness when I came off the pill and too my delight, it was no different. That's excluding the increased sex drive, obviously...

Oooooh HP-SP moves one step nearer to being this threads first BFP. I know this is no TTC, nor is it even NPP (Not Preventing Pregnancy), but this is an important preliminary step - PPLV (Preventing Pregnancy Less Vigilently)?

However its classified, I think this is a huge step forward. And really good that you are talking about it with DH. And it is pretty good getting your body back to the way is should be. Since I've been off the pill, I have started to notice more variation in my mood and physical well being at different points in my cycle. There's lots of ebbing and flowing and gurgling goes on that I never noticed before.

Most amused by the idea of being unfaithful to this thread! I am two timing with the First Time Frolickers thread and just occasionally make forrays beyond there. I try to stay away from AIBU - its all a bit too muscular for a delicate little flower like me.

Confused, re your child in pub scenario, I don't think you would turn into a lax parent in public places. Obviously, I'm just speculating, but I don't think having children alters people that much. If you are pretty self centred and think that your needs superceed those of others around you, then you will think the same for your children. If you think that occupying a public space requires consideration for others using the same space now, then you will probably vigilently police your children whilst in a public space. I don't think parenthood changes our essential opinions and behaviour - just enhances and develops what is already there.

YTD I'm glad to hear your thoughts on the pub scenario. I would be horrified if my child was pissing someone off in the pub, but I am saying that now when I have no kids to be doing the pissing off. I'd like to think I'd be more considerate all the same!

The AIBU threads are very scary indeed, as I discovered when I created one (the one about children running around restaurants - about 65% said I was BU and the others said not, but some of the reasons given were, in my opinion, quite shocking - along the lines of the world revolves around my child).

When I came off the pill I had a big surge in libido (but that's worn off a bit now ) and that's about it. Nothing more obvious at all, which is kind of a relief. Would have been horrendous to have the stomach cramps and so on that I had when I was, er, 16.

I cant believe a child helped himself to your crisps. Lost for words. Sometimes I think that some children 'these days' seem to think they are the centre of the universe, aided in this opinion no doubt by their parents. Unbeliveable. Perhaps a lot of it stems from the massive emphasis we put on children - nowadays its such a huge decision, as we all know, that having children has become a huge deal, whereas previously it was 'oh, the kids are somewhere around, I think'. But we all know people who are great parents, who have well behaved children that are corrected if they are naughty. Maybe its the definition of naughty that varies too much?

I definitely stay away from AIBU. I dont mind a healthy discussion as much as the next anonymous, code-name protected person but I like a little sugar with my tea. Basically, I dont like confrontation and some people on MN get really angry. No doubt sometimes rightly, but I dont come on here to be yelled at (not that anyone has, but I wouldnt like it if it happened).

You two are making me laugh. BFP? Tee hee. Look at all the palavor (sp?) about just coming off the pill!? But the next confession is that Ive been doing some maths and the only way I can have a baby in my current job is if I get pregnant between now and the end of June (for maternity pay due to length of contract). Otherwise, we will have to wait at least two years, when Im in a new job and settled. Im not going to bring that one up with DH just yet, not as things are so good after todays decision. I think he has come to terms with a few things, it is just taking a while for both of us. Im still a bit freaked out that Im really coming off the pill. eek!

Confused, regards S's treatment, I know about general haematology but not cancer treatments, so I just did a quick literature search for you. It seems that chemotherapy-induced anaemia is quite common following therapy. It can be treated using conventional methods, such as transfusions and mediciations. They will keep a close eye on his numbers and take action if it is needed. If he feels faint or weak, he can tell them straight away and be checked out.

And, T1D. I will type an outline of what I know. If its too clinical or sciency, Im really, really sorry, I dont want you to worry about anything I type or be confused (!) about anything, so if you dont want to talk about it after all, I understand, or if you want more information, I can pass it on (to the limit of my own understanding!).......

As I briefly mentioned on that 'other thread' , T1D falls into a group of conditions known as multifactoral disorders. What this means is that the presence of the condition cant be attributed wholly to genetic factors, nor wholly to environmental factors. In fact a combination of both genetic and environmental factors are required.

For T1D and other conditions like heart disease, the situation is made more complex by the fact that there isnt a single gene responsible for the condition, unlike conditions like sickle cell disease or haemophilia. What happens in complex disorders is that a large number of genes are involved, each contributing a small part to the risk of having the condition. Hunting for these genes is difficult and requires very large study groups of affected people. The current thinking with T1D is that an individual with a combination of 'risk genes' (mutations in some of their genes, which are common and normal and nothing you can do anything about, please dont worry) are perhaps exposed to one or more environmental events, which triggers the beginning of the disease, often at a young age. Now, the environmental factors for T1D are not well understood, but it could be for example, exposure to a common virus, which might not have consequences in a person lacking the risk genes, but sadly does have consequences in the suceptible individual. With T2D, the environmental factors are known to be weight/diet/exercise, but there are also very strong genetic factors as well. So if a person has risk genes AND is very overweight, then they increase their risk of developing T2D.

Is that ok - let me know if you want me to clarify anything Ive written?

Ooo, and I cant open the link to your new dress - it just goes swirly. Maybe try posting it again?

Yay to decisions, ovulation and HP's DH being a bit more positive!

I'd better get started on the cardigan hadn't I?! I located enough yarn from my stash but then it didn't make it as far as the 'projects ready to go' box.

Perhaps naively, whenever I see kids behaving really badly, I'm supremely confident that mine won't be nicking crisps/kicking off in the supermarket/whinging because they want a Big McVomit Burger or whatever! So I second YTD's suggestion that parenthood doesn't change your essential views.

Going to read the diabetes bit again but in the meantime, this is the dress cgi.ebay.co.uk/M-S-AUTOGRAPH-Black-Silk-Maxi-Dress-Size-8-NEW_W0QQitemZ390151776473QQcmdZViewItemQQp tZWomensClothing?var=&hash=item99ab25bc20

But not, alas, in a size eight!!

Suerock - knit one for me just in case please!! I LOVE your cardies! They bring out the red in me!

HP thank you for the info on Type 1 Diabetes. I knew some of it, but not the nitty gritty bits (if that makes sense.) As I was diagnosed when I was 4 I now look after myself, but don't think about the in's and outs too much (such as the causes, for example.) I used to be very open about telling people I was diabetic. In fact, a bit of a confession here, I liked the fact that it made me stand out in various ways (not that I was someone who passes out or similar, I have never done that due to either hyper or hypo-glacemia I'm proud to say) but now I tend to keep it more to my chest as there is SO much in the news about 'diabetes' but that is generally type 2 (the lifestyle / fat linked type.)

With regard to risk factors, I was living in Kuwait when I was diagnosed and I also, just before, had a horrid ear infection. Several Type 1's I have met had some kind of nasty (flu for example) before their pancreas packed up too. Are you saying it isn't genetic or environmental but a combination of the two?

Yes, thats exactly it. For both types of diabetes, and other diseases like heart disease, inflammatory bowel disease, asthma, and many others. The strong working hypothesis is that someone with a particular combination of genetic risk factors, who is then exposed to one or more of the environmental risk factors is more likely to develop T1D.

Part of the complexity is that multigenic disorders dont have a clear pattern of inheritance like single gene disorders do. So many factors come together, or dont come together.

There are lots of challenges narrowing down both the genetic and environmental factors for T1D, but the genetic studies have an advantage in that you can take DNA from affected and unaffected people, compare them and find what is different (sounds easy, is in fact hard!). Trying to find an environmental factor that someone was exposed to, possibly in the womb or early childhood years before diagnosis is very difficult indeed.

I guess this research is done with a view to curing or inocculating against it? But, how would you know someone is likely to develop it if it depends on both environmental and genetic factors? Might be being a bit thick here as I am a bit tired, but interested all the same!

You are not being thick. It is very difficult to prevent it, for exactly those reasons.

The first aim of the research is to try to understand the disease, as the more you understand something the more chance you have of preventing it or improving treatments. A lot of work is being done researching new treatments, did you see in the news about the Cambridge scientists working on an artificial pancreas for children, for example?

www.admin.cam.ac.uk/news/dp/2010020404

It raises an interesting question about risk and how we all should think about the future, where we may all be offered commercial sequencing of our genomes. Now, currently we dont fully understand all the genetic risk factors for common diseases, let alone the environmental interaction with the genes. But imagine we did. Would you want your genome to be sequenced at birth and your risk calculated? If it showed that a newborn was at a higher risk (genetically) of T1D, perhaps they could be very closely monitored and offered treatments earlier, which may be better in the future.

I tend not to read many of the developments re the curing of diabetes as it is generally so far off it ain't going to happen to me, and also that I am fine as I am. Yes, it would be great not to have insulin etc every day but I have done it for so long that I cannot imagine not doing, if that makes sense. A few have asked me if I'd have a pancreas transplant - firstly, I wouldn't be considered a viable candidate and secondly, I am okay as I am. I have very good control and have had it so long that it barely impacts on my life (I am glad I got it young for that reason.) If I wanted to I could get pissed of that I have it, but I can't change that so why stress...?
However, this is all my personal views and obviously make it my view on how everyone else should be treated!

Its sounds like a good attitude to have, there is not much we can do with the genetic cards we have been dealt. I have an inherited issue that increases my risk of heart disease, feck all I can do apart from my best to keep it managed (not in the same league as T1D, but its the closest I can get to trying to understand).

If there is anything you wanted to chat to me about, perhaps if you had any more genetics-based questions, Im always here. And if I dont know the answer I have many friends who definitely would, if the answer is known!

Right Im off to bed now. Sleeeeepy.

Night all. xx