TTC after pregnancy loss thread 31 - baby penguins are coming!

[strawberrye]

🐧 🐧 🐧 🐧 🐧 🐧 🐧 🐧 🐧 🐧 🐧 🐧 🐧

Welcome to the 🐧 huddle. This is a wonderful supportive group for anyone TTC after the loss of a pregnancy or baby. Together we can get through he rollercoaster of TTC and get our baby penguins xx

Hello everyone, and welcome to @Laceygabriella and @JuniperAndRose - so very sorry for both your losses, and that you find yourselves here. Fingers crossed it's a short stay for all of us.

Stats - am 34, TTC #1 since Sept 2018, ectopic pregnancy at six weeks in Feb 2019, left tube removed, naff all luck since.

I love that cartoon - definitely been there.

AF is due today but hasn't shown up yet. I'm too frightened to test. I'm scared of it being no, and more of it being yes - what if it's ectopic again, or doesn't stick for some other reason? More hospitals, more pain, more grief. I don't think I'm brave enough for this TTC lark. Argh!

Sorry forgot to add my stats

Age 31
TTC baby #1 trying for pregnancy #2
Now on 6th cycle TTC
Currently CD 2

Oh @zenlife, you too, and I'm so sorry - that's such a recent loss. Thinking of you. Come let it out here, we've all been where you are.

Welcome @JuniperAndRose. I am sorry to hear about Eliza ❤️

I only track my cervical mucus. I did measure my bbt last year for a couple of months but I got so stressed out I stopped. Maybe measuring up until ovulation is confirmed is a good compromise x

@DuvetCaterpillar thank you so much. It's almost a taboo subject isn't it, feel like I can't confide in people because it's generally not really spoken about! So it's lovely to have people on here who can relate xx

Welcome @Laceygabriella, @JuniperAndRose @Zenlife, sorry for your losses.

Re: the two threads, I'm personally happy for visitors from the other thread to drop by from time to time - many of the people I started this journey with are happily now on the other thread and it's a shame to lose touch! Equally I understand it can be tough hearing about other people's pregnancies when you're struggling. I think it was the right time for a second thread to be started as with such a big wave of BFPs this thread had at times become more about pregnancy than about TTC (I didn't like to post about TTC as it felt like rudely interrupting the pregnancy chat!).

I'd love it if we could find away to make everyone feel welcome while also keeping the focus of this thread primarily on TTC. My fear is that eventually a graduate of this thread might suffer another loss and feel that they are not welcome to return here. We might be on two different threads with two slightly different purposes but we've all supported each other through similar experiences.

I apologise in advance if the above came across as insensitive to anyone. It's so hard to balance everyone's needs!

Hello ladies.

@AliceRR thank you for the tag and asking.

If you're a lurker on the other thread you'll know it's been a tough few weeks and it's getting harder for me emotionally not easier. Think breaking down in tears most days.

I've been trying to keep up with this thread but not posting because I didn't think I'd be welcome but TBH I'm not ready to break away. DH's sperm DNA fragmentation results mean for me the reality is that I'm more than likely to be back here in the next few weeks if not days.

I also like to keep up with what's happening with everyone, especially as some of you have been there for me since july last year when I joined and patiently put up with my grief in my darkest days through both mc's. Kindly explained things to me which I had no idea about and ultimately convinced me to go private for tests the NHS just won't do.

As many of you know my TTC journey started 6 years ago and it's just been hell. This thread has been my lifeline and my safe space where I didn't feel judged. Where I can stay (and still feel) angry, jealous and hard done by as so many people I know in real life have easy conceptions, textbook pregnancies but don't appreciate it and just moan or take it for granted. Then proceed to shove it down my throat and rub my face in it.

To echo what @Yukka said about being in fear paralysis. I'm sure many of you with recurrent losses will relate to, it's horrible.

Anyway, just to share the latest in the hope it might help someone here (already had someone from this thread PM me to ask). As I've mentioned, DH's sperm DNA fragmentation results after we had treatment came back with no improvement even though the bacteria identified had been eliminated. The urologist doesn't know what the cause is now or what the treatment is, so DH is now on 3 different supplements, Proxeed, Condensyl and Symprove. He's also going to start clinical trials in the autumn. All the while every day I get older and my egg quality will decline (I'm 39).

I really hope that you all get your BFPs soon and that you can pop over to the grads thread soon .........more importantly I hope they are healthy sticky beans that go the full 40 weeks and you have a rainbow to take home and see grow up, go to school, graduate, get jobs, get married and make you a Grandmother x

Anyone heard from @Russkispy recently? Bit worried about her and hope she is doing okay x

@zenlife
Quite similar situation to you. I was sooo sure I was gonna conceive the first cycle after the MC because the flipping universe owes us that right?!?

I was crushed and all over the place when AF arrived. Can totally empathise with what you are saying. 😢

@pinkoi it's really hard isn't it. It's just a physical reminder of it xx

@strawberrye thank you for the new thread.
@InDreamland thank you for asking after me. I'm still here. Not sure how many dpos I am now, and if there's a BFN this cycle, been TTc naturally, then we're moving on to a donor egg. I'm 43 now, and had my 2nd MMC in May. After a failed IVF and my frozen embryo had a trisomy in 18 which is a bad news. We've already selected a donor but it will be a frozen embryo cycle in August as 1 embryo after collection will be genetically tested and only then transferred. Hope all is going well with you an I really hope you'll have your rainbow baby this time around! Everything crossed for you!

Hi @InDreamland, nice to hear from you and glad to hear you are still pregnant. I actually thought you had miscarried some time ago but obviously got completely the wrong end of the stick! I know from experience that early pregnancy anxiety can be horrendous, especially after one or more losses and I hope you are getting lots of support on the other thread.

@zenlife @pinkoi I get that too. I'm 13 months on from my first loss and 7 months on from my last and I still hate getting my period, even when I know there's no possibility of pregnancy for me! It brings back unpleasant memories.

@Russkispy X-posted! Good to hear from you and good luck with your upcoming FET!

@Russkispy thank you. Lovely to hear from you. So sorry your frozen embryo had trisomy 18. I'm always in awe at how strong you are and you always seem to look to the future and have a plan for your next steps. I just know you will get your rainbow. Stay positive, you're an amazing strong woman!

@TinyPaws thank you. I thought I had started bleeding a couple of weeks ago which is why I posted back here because of the brown spotting....... well there was more than just some spotting. Hope your next cycle is successful! Hopefully with the treatment and medical support this time round will be your rainbow. Keeping fx for you.

@AliceRR @strawberrye I was one of the ladies thrown off here after I received a positive pregnancy test, I didn't want to go to graduates thread and shortly after I did I miscarried. I was shocked at the insensitivity shown towards me on here. I was very newly pregnant, after a TMFR at 13 weeks last year, but was not welcome because it may upset others.

Suffice to say, I won't be coming back, I find the over 40s thread much more supportive. We are all women who have suffered loss and we should find it within ourselves to be supportive of those who are newly pregnant. I see nothing wrong with the posts on here which were meant to give hope to others, try and look within yourself to be happy for those who have become pregnant recently.

I won't be coming back again, I find the bitterness quite depressing. I've been loitering on the graduates thread as I would rather read about their good news than return to this group again.

@rubyroot I'm so very sorry to hear about your loss and that you feel you were thrown off here. Of course you should go to which ever thread you feel most comfortable on.

It's such a shame that those of us who want a safe space from pregnancy chat are being stigmatised and told that feeling this way is not being supportive. After loss I think we feel such a huge range of emotions and shouldn't be made to feel guilty about any of them. Accusing people of being unsupportive because they find pregnancy chat difficult is ironically rather unsupportive in itself. Perhaps those of us who arent successful in TTC after loss should be thrown off instead?

Ladies I think I'm going to take a break from mumsnet.

I feel those of us who are sensitive to pregnancy chat are being thrown off here as much as those who are pregnant. The hyperbole is a bit dramatic I think and it seems particularly ironic that on what is meant to be a TTC support thread that we can't be sensitive to all, particularly those still TTC! It seems ok to disregard some people's feelings but insensitive and unsupportive to disregard other people's feelings. This is really upsetting as I thought mumsnet was one place where I could express all my feelings and thoughts, no matter how ugly, without judgement. There is so much guilt and unpleasant emotion felt after loss that I think it's terrible some people are being made to feel on here like they are horrible people for the way they feel.

I wish you all the best with your journeys.

I'm really sorry to hear that @strawberrye 💜 I'm really sad that you feel that way. I'm sorry you feel you have been judged for your feelings and feel you have no choice but to leave. I can only speak on my behalf but I hope you do come back. Knowing there are others who understand ttc after loss has been so important to me.

I've been reading all the comments and it is upsetting to have pregnancy thrust in your face when you're struggling. I know I disengaged from the thread when there were lots of pregnancy announcements and lots of chatter about early pregnancy. It was massively triggering for me because of how my miscarriage started. I didn't feel I could contribute anything as I wasn't in the lucky club of those who had concieved.

Anyway, this is my long winded way to say I hear you and hope you will always feel welcome here xx

@strawberrye @rubyroot so sorry to hear the way you feel. Mumsnet (and this group) have been a real lifeline for me when I've been feeling at my lowest, and to think that the groups have actually made people feel worse is really sad. Online communities are a fantastic thing, but just like 'real life' friendship groups they have their ups and downs. It would be sad to not share your journeys any more, but I completely understand why you would choose to leave the board if you don't find it the welcoming and supportive place it should be. Best of luck either way x

I've reread this thread and I honestly can't see that anyone has thrust pregnancy in anyone's face. I can completely understand the need for a second thread because the wave of BFPs and subsequent pregnancy chatter upset me as well, but the reaction to a couple of us checking in on the new thread was really unfair if I'm being honest.

We've all been through dark, miserable times and this should never have become an us/them argument. Having received such a brutal reaction from a few of you, if the worst happens I feel as though I can't come back to this thread, which is really sad because it had been my support this year.

I was talking about the last thread @Frillyfarmer not this current one. For me, logging in and seeing photo after photo of positive pregnancy tests was too much and I felt I couldn't contribute.

I wish you all the luck in the world and I hope that you and any of us who do manage to conceive have happy and healthy pregnancies. X

Surely the point of these 2 threads is to support each other. I said on the other thread that we are all in sensitive situations and sometimes upset is caused unintentionally. I do understand that the early pregnancy chat on the previous thread would have been upsetting but there is now graduate thread which there wasn't at the time so I think a line should be drawn under that. It's a real shame that people feel pushed out in both directions we need to be kind to each other. It's in the nature of a TTC thread that you should expect to see BFP, there was a lot at once though but I don't think those that got them should be criticised for that alone. This is a very emotional time for everyone and I hope we as a larger group can move forward and continue to support each other. Best of luck to everyone through this journey that none of us should be in.

I feel exactly as @strawberrye does and I read one of the particularly unpleasant comments last night and didn’t know what to say.

This was a safe, supportive place and so many of us have shared when we were having a down day and then being faced with a baby or pregnancy announcement when we could do without it. There was no judgement in those scenarios. But when those feelings were triggered by something on this thread - talk of scans etc - and because some of been honest about that we have been judged as insensitive.

I feel responsible for causing problem as I was the first one to mention it this time around but then it was obviously on others’ minds and some of the responses we’ve had have been quite harsh. People have used words like brutal, blunt and bitter to describe those of us who have expressed these views but I have looked back at the thread too and thought most of us have expressed ourselves in a kind and sensitive way.

I’ve said before and I’ll say again what I though was too much (when I was having a particularly bad day) was talk of scans etc. I’m so happy for all of you who are pregnant now and I wish you all the best. I know some of you have been trying a lot longer than I have. What @strawberrye and I were advocating is exactly what you all say you want - sensitive towards everyone, for everyone to feel welcome and to maybe find a middle ground for the pregnancy chat on here so everyone is welcome and feels comfortable. As it is it seems you only want us to be sensitive towards you, we should put our feelings aside, and now none of us feel welcome here any more.

@VenusStarr 🤞

So sorry about your mc @zenlife

Hope af doesn’t show up for you @DuvetCaterpillar

@InDreamland It’s good to hear from you. I’m sorry to hear you are struggling, I can only imagine, and I’m sorry for any part I’ve had in making you feel uncomfortable. Maybe I shouldn’t have said anything yesterday but you know the days when you see someone having a scan on a tv show or something and you just think “not today!” 🙈

Anyway I’ve seen some of the discussion about it all on the graduate thread and I saw some of it yesterday. I know some one you feel invested in this thread because you’ve been here a long time. Unfortunately we don’t have another thread to go on to discuss it all away from the graduates so we just get pounced upon for being honest. I really do wish you all the best but obviously I don’t think I would feel comfortable there now either if I get my BFP.

@AliceRR ☺️ I can't remember if I told you I went to yoga last week. It's on again tomorrow and I'm really looking forward to it. I think it helps that the teacher is really calm and focuses us on being open to healing. You do a class too don't you?