TTC after miscarriage- March 2007

[duchesse]

Sorry, guys, can't leave a redirect at the old one- it's not accepting new messages. I hope nobody's already set a new one up...

loving these lists ladies.

Has anyone else had a "dodgy" af after the m/c. it was around when i thought I would be due using start of m/c as cd1. It came earlier and was v v light - spotting for a couple of days then light flow for another day, now lots of (tmi) strange cm. hmm.

God, i thought I was so much better - i have battled with depression and related (i sound like a nutter - eating disorder and self harm) for the last 9 years and was doing very very well... had even been off anti depressants for over a year. Then this m/c came along and knocked me for 6. I feel lower than I have for years, I fele a crap mother to the dd i do have and think i am stupid to be thinking of bringing any more babies into the world if i'm crap with the one I do have. I've been thinking dark thoughts and just generally yuk. You have probably seen me say that my dh is a vicar, and his curate (who happens to be older, in fact his oldest child is 3 years younger than me) has been great - talking and praying with dh and he and his wife sent me flowers and offered his wife's services (she is a counsellor). I went to see her last week and I think I have finally, after many years of trying, found someone I CAN talk to. I reckon the pair of them are going to be fed up with me soon if not already cos I have sent so many pathetic texts and emails, but i just feel rubbish and don;t haver a clue how to get out of it.

Hi Everyone. Am not ignoring everyone but just wanted to say a quick hug hello to Basilbrush - it was 23 March that I had my scan which revealed our baby had died and that afternoon I had my D&C. So I'm sending hugs for our shared month anniversary.

I am lucky that I am not back at work yet so I have spent my day chasing DD around and hosting a carpet picnic lunch with friends and children. (We were meant to have an outdoor picnic but too cold!)

Sending positivity xxxx

winkygir I am in your club too - scan on the 19th, ERPC on the 23rd march..god that is really a whole month ago - feel like a totally different person. just got pics thru of friends week old baby - invited over next w/e hmmm am feeling better but not sure THAT much better (actaully she is a real laugh and would probably want a Riose chum )
herbaceous phew you just don't know how emails come accross and sometimes I just type away without engaging brain first!

winky girl and popsy - thank you anniversary sisters! Feel a bit better now the day has past to be honest... Last night read all the positive messages in our thread and came up with my own list of things to be Glad About:

1. I have a totally gorgeous DS
2. I have a totally wonderful DH
3. Both times I have tried to get PG so far I have done so in 3 months
4. I am "only" 28
5. There is hope for me yet!
6. And it's tortellini for tea ....mmmmmm...

Keep thinking about this list when colleagues say "Oh yeah, moving house are we? Need more room do we? Hmm? Hmmm?"

Hugs a tout le monde
BB xx

Morning ladies!

I love the lists that you posted- they are really positive and I found them very helpful. Patkica- I need to come to terms with it being ok to feel ok and then relapse. I felt I was really getting there and then had an awful weekend where I was inconsolable and refused to see anyone other than DH and I panicked myself that my mind was unraveling. Now I feel a bit better again, I am accepting that there will be times like this again but they will pass, and reading everyones posts has helped me understand this is all 'normal'. (though i don't think I've ever been described as normal!

I am driving myself mad waiting for AF (I had 1st erpc 8wks ago and 2nd erpc 5 weeks ago- although my hcg was down before the second op, I am guessing i should count the '4-6 weeks' that the hospital told me to expect my period from the second op. Do you agree?)

Anyway, I had acupuncture last night in an attempt to kick start things. The woman was lovely and I literally poured out all the recent events. She was very positive and so I wanted to share that with you all. She said it is really important to try and stay positive and not to lose confidence in your body's ability to have a baby and to try not to slip into anxiety or negative thinking. She is a firm believer that emotional and psychological health play an important role in getting pg (and I think this echoes what beckle one of our success stories was saying ). She said we should endeavour to have at least one relaxing activity per day whatever that might be, to quieten our minds and look after ourselves. I explained the jealous feelings I was having over a good friend who I am certain is pg but not telling me, and she said that I had to remind myself other people having joy and good fortune did not mean that I couldn't have similar joy too- they are unrelated. Worrying and fretting (my main activities) were merely draining my body's resources at a time when my body is weak and needing to heal.

I know this is all common sense and it is easier said than done to stop worrying but I'm feeling positive this morning and wanted to spread happy vibes

sorry for the sermon

popsy- I?m so sorry you had such an emotional weekend, a real rollercoaster for you. Those pg tests can really do your head in! Glad to hear you had a good chat with your mum, and even if you?re not about to change your job yet at least you have identified it as is something you can change to reduce your stress. Hopefully, a BFP will come your way soon and a nice long bout of maternity leave!

Gillydaffs- really pleased to hear you found a counsellor you clicked with. Thanks for sharing so much- I found what you said about learning to be more patient very relevant to me. I am useless at waiting for anything and this is only causing me more stress so I do need to address this. Thanks also to you and MrsMc for recommending yoga- I did go last week after a tearful day at work and it really calmed me down and I had the best night?s sleep for a long time.

MrsMc- what a really lovely comment about your DH. Sorry to hear you?re vulnerable too but I am glad your DH is taking good care of you. I might have got muddled, but were you waiting for some test results from your gp- any luck?

Basilbrush- are you ok? How are you feeling today? and Herbaceous- are you alright? can the hospital counsellor you got on with recommend anyone else? I?m really glad you found someoneone you can talk to alittlebitshy and I doubt they will get fed up with you. They will be glad to help. I agree with Gilly?s comments.

jules- your poem to Annabelle was really beautiful and moving. It is frustrating having to wait a few months to ttc but it sounds like you need time to say goodbye to your babies and to get your strength back. feedmenow- I really agree with your comments on your body being depleted after mc and found your description of your first AF being unusual was helpful.

lfm- I?m waiting for AF too. I keep getting days of cramps and odd pains but no bleeding and strange CM patterns. I guess it?s the hormones being up in the air but it is infuriating.

jady1407- did you go the doctors? please let us know how you are. We?re worried! and worrying isn?t good for any of us!!

patkica- thanks for posting what your doctor said- I agree it is important to remember that we Can get pg

wheely- have you got your pc fixed yet? or are you off doing something less boring instead!

and finally, belated but big congratulations to beckle and peanutbutter. what wonderful news. Please do drop by and let us know how you are.

Hi Gilly!

It's true isn't it? when i came out and told DH what she said , he said 'but I've told you that already'- which he probably had to be fair. But I know he will tell me anything I want to hear so it's good to have confirmation from a stranger (even if it's one I've paid!!)

Hey ladies lovely sunny day here ? finally! I know we rarely talk about actually TTC on here but I thought I?d share that I am hoping to OV any day now and DH and I have been practising ?return to the mother ship? quite often so I hope we can keep it up and then we?ll both feel that at least we did our best this cycle anyone one else in the active phase?

Popsy ? didn?t see that article. Why don?t you send yours in? or post it for us? I can?t believe your MIL why do families have to take medical conditions as a slight on them? My Gran was a bit the same about the blood clotting issues in our family, insisting that they must have been down my Grandfather?s line

Herbaceous ? good points you are so incredibly brave I don?t know how I would cope if my world crashed again (that was how I felt when I lost my baby) but you just have to go on don?t you? You find a way to survive. Don?t answer me if it hurts to but can you remind me what those investigations showed and what the medication was for? I?m just interested/nosy as I want to understand your position better That is lovely of your sister to offer to share her eggs Mine goes quite (even on email) if I even mention my MC she has 2 little boys and I guess just doesn?t know what to say to me.

Alittlebitshy how are you today? Are you ok? Take each day as it comes hon and don?t fight how you feel. I think AF can be dodgy after a MC, either very heavy or very light. It just takes time for our bodies to get back to normal I guess. Honey, depression and related illnesses are just that, they have nothing to do with what you are but they are part of who you are and I guess they?ll always be just round the corner. I speak from the perspective of someone looking on, my MIL is Bi-polar and her whole life has been a series of incredible highs and incredible lows and it seems to me that guilt is one of her strongest emotions all the time but she has nothing now or ever to be guilty for, it?s just her emotions playing with her. You must be kind to yourself. You are so much better; could you have coped the way you are 9 years ago without those related elements kicking in? (Sorry if they have and you haven?t told us) could you have admitted you needed support? I think you are an incredible woman please see that in yourself. You sound to me as if you are a wonderful mother to your DD from all the things you have told us and any child would and will be lucky to have you as their Mum. I?m so glad that you have found someone you can talk too and don?t think for a minute they?ll be fed up with you, the lady is trained and knows what you are going through and how much time it may take to make you feel better, I have no doubt she wasn?t expecting a quick fix and is happy to help you through the whole journey

Hello Gillydaffodil how are you feeling today?

Winkygirl ? thinking of you, anniversaries of any sort are so hard carpet picnic sounds fun

Basilbrush ? glad you are ok hon love your list, you forgot ?I am brave and can get through this? and ?I have a wonderful sense of humour and that will help me get back to my old self? By the way very jealous of all the things on your list I can totally say number 2 applies to me and that I hope number 5 does but not to the others BUT I have 3 wonderful fury babies ? best pussy cats on the planet! My star cat Diva can retrieve!! Oh so clever [bursting with pride!]

Hello Torres ? I totally agree with you, it is ok to relapse and it doesn?t mean we are not recovering. It?s just the nature of the beast. Agree that you?ll probably need to count from the 2nd ERPC as the POC would still have been producing HCG until after the 2nd one. So glad the Acupuncture went well and thanks for sharing her good advice. I have read so many times that we have to believe we can be pregnant to get pregnant. Apparently it is all to do with the messages that our brains send to our pituitary glands, we must be open to the idea! Glad you are feeling positive today and that the yoga is working I got my thyroid result yesterday which was fine blood count and iron have to be repeated on Thurs and I should get results of blood clotting tests next Weds thanks for asking!

MrsMc- I love that phrase 'return to the mothership'!! . Go for it girl!

Glad to hear your thyroid is ok. Shame you are still waiting for the others but it sounds like you have a good distraction for the next few days!!

Hello All !! I finally have a new power cable so have been able to catch up with you all. Wow - you miss a lot when off for a few days !

Jules - sorry to hear things are still not sorted. What have the hospital said about it ? Please feel free to keep posting here if it helps despite the fact you are not yet ready to ttc and here's wishing a speedy solution to your hcg levels and that the 3 months goes by in a flash.

Torres - I would think 4-6 weeks since second ERPC is reasonable to assume. Glad to hear the acupuncture went well. I keep thinking about it - one of my friends who had problems conceiving dc2 had acupuncture and swears it worked. I have decided if I haven't conceived by September (which seems an awfully long way off but...) I will have it then as dd will be in pre-school so much easier to arrange.

MrsMc - glad you were off doing something fun over the w/e. Pleased your thyroid test has come back ok. On the subject of the mother ship and all that (), I am CD14 here with a long cycle so we are 'in the zone'. Doing OPKs but DH was put on notice last night that we should start tonight Just In Case .

Popsy - Sorry to hear you've been through a bad patch but hope that, in the immortal words of Yazz, 'the only is up' from now. Although try not to worry if its all a bit up and down for a while. It still is for me 9 months on (but hopefully you won't still be here in 9 months). I read that article in the sunday times too - it was quite rubbish I thought, it didn't really say much. Would love to read yours. Did you test again ? Sorry things are a bit odd at the mo for you.

Basil - sorry to hear you are struggling too, I hope you feel much better now you are through the milestone of the month anniversary. The same goes to Popsy and Winkygirl. Alittlebitshy - sorry to hear you too are having a really bad time. It must be so hard to face something like m/c on top of depression. Please don't think you are a rubbish Mum, I know none of us know you in real life but I am fairly certain if you asked your little girl she would think you are the best and that really is what counts and I'm sure you are. Noone is a great parent all the time (in fact dd is ensconced in front of the tv at the mo so I can catch up with you lot ). I would think too its hard to feel depressed when being a vicar's wife as you're probably expected to help others and not need it yourself (that's probably a bit of a simplistic view and hope thats not offensive). I am pleased you are finding help through the curate and his wife. They sound like great people.

Herbaceous - sorry if I missed this but when do you find out if there was any genetic cause for your last m/c ? I hope its soon and that you get the all clear and find the strength to try again. Your sister sounds fantastic - am so pleased you have this option but hope you don't need it.

The lists are fab. Keep them coming - Patkica you are so right about feeling ok and relapsing. I'm glad you are finding this thread and mumsnet such a comfort. I have been on MN for almost 3 years now and sometimes it makes me want to scream out loud with frustration at some of the judgemental rubbish that is spouted but at the end of day I know it is a great source of information, comfort and laughter.

A big hello and hug to everyone else - especially Beckle and Peanutbutter. Let us know how things are going and keep coming back to check up on us all, it won't be the same without you !

MrsMc and Wheely - you were kind enough to want to know more...

My first mc was at 6 weeks in June 2005. Just a quickie at home.

Second was at 11 weeks in January 2006. Pretty ghastly complete mc with loads of blood, long painful wait in casualty, etc.. Then a mum with a newborn put in the bed opposite me, after they'd made me carry the miscarried embryo on my lap to the ward. I had some half-hearted tests by GP.

Third was at 13 weeks in September last year. It was such a shock, as I'd had scans at 6, 8 and 10 weeks, all showing a heartbeat. Then at the nuchal fold scan I was told it had died. The POC were tested, and showed it had Edwards Syndrome, a chromosonal problem and would never have survived. It also showed it was a boy, which is weird as I was sure it was.

At this point I took the bull by the horns and went private to get tests - blood clotting, all that - and they showed I had an elevated level of NK cells. It's a controversial new theory, but this guy reckoned they can be treated by steroids.

So, when I got pregnant in January this year I thought that this one would work, as I was being 'looked after'. So it was a terrible shock for this one to die at 9 weeks, shown up on a scan at 11 weeks.

This POC is still being tested, and I can't get a straight answer out of the hospital about when I'll get the results.
If they show another chrom. problem, I think I'll do that IVF when they test the embryos before implanting them. The trouble is that I'm 41, and although I can get pregnant easily, maybe my eggs are all buggered. Hence the offer from sis...

sorry if I've gone on...

Herby - you've really been through it and don't think you are going on, you are not and even if you were - thats what we're here for. Your treatment in Jan 06 sounds awful - you poor thing.

I hope the latest tests come through soon so you at least know where you are and can try again naturally or try IVF. Please stay strong and feel free to come and vent.

Hi herbaceous- I am completely and utterly horrified by your treatment when you had your second mc. I know hospitals have a shortage of beds but to put you opposite a new mother is seriously insensitive. However, it is the bit about them making you carry your baby back to the ward that I am really shocked by. You poor thing. That has made my blood boil. I am so angry you had to go through that.

Regarding the steroids, did they give you these during your last pregnancy? If not, and the chromosome tests on the baby show its a random unlucky cause of mc,maybe your eggs are not as bad as you fear (I seem to recall you mentioning your karotyping was ok?)Perhaps steroid treatment could really help you if you do decide to give it another go naturally. I completely understand your worries about this and IVF screening of embryos would give you great peace of mind I'm sure. Hope this doesnt sound patronising, especially if youve already had steroids,i dont mean to be.

Wheely- you're back! and you will be off doing something less boring instead!! Still laughing at your DH being put on notice! I do that too. Thanks for advice on AF, guess I just have to wait it out. Will let you know if acupuncture works for me.

I was indeed on steroids this pregnancy, which is why I thought it would be OK. Private consultant who prescribed them can't believe they didn't work, and says 'next time' I should go on heparin and progesterone too, but just because he doesn't know what else to do, i suspect. Though I have heard blood clotting can get worse during pg, even if it doesn't show up in non-pg tests.

Bloody hell, you can drive yourself mad with all the 'what ifs'. The truth is that in many cases doctors just don't know.

Torres - I wrote a letter of complaint to the hospital about their treatment of me, and did get a grovelling phone call. I haven't been back there since. It's earmarked for closure, and frankly would be no loss to the world.

sorry - I'll stop talking about me now!

Torres, I wish I could help you with the AF question, but the information is all so vague. The internet is fantastic, but the more you read, the more conflicting information you get about these things. All my GP could say is that the return of cycles varies and all we can be sure of (reasonably, at least) is that you will ovulate 2 weeks before your next period. Very helpful!
I love that you are adding to my list. I want to add:

having a good GP is essential
alcohol is also essential, especially of the red wine variety.

Herbacious: I am shocked by your treatment. And really angry. What can I say except that you ahve been so unlucky and things are bound to go your way soon. Remember: getting pregnant in the first place is brilliant and the main building blocks for a healthy pregnancy are surely there.

Interesting to read about egg donation too as I was just saying to my dh that I would like to donate mine after I have the next baby. The m/c really made me think about what it would mean to someone and I don't need them all. Mind you, I'm probably too old.

The other thing I was wondering is whether we have more in common than our sad m/c experiences? I mean, I have had trouble before with depression and it seems I'm not the only one. And I bet that we have all read everything going on m/c and ttc and have spent hours researching on the internet. I think we must all be more ready than most to talk about our experiences and also that we really focus very deeply on particualr aspects of our lives - in this case pregnancy. Or am I being silly? I was really struck by how many people have told me that they had had a m/c, but then said they had never talked about it. Perhaps those of us who do are actually in the minority.
Enough amateur psychology. See you all tomorrow. Off to have a drink.

Oh Jules this is so awful, what happens now? Sending huge hugs.

Wheely, hello! enjoy the action!

Herbaceous ? I am just so sorry for all you have been through. It is so incredibly unfair that you have been through so much. I cannot believe the way you were treated when you lost the 2nd baby, that is horrific . I hope you get some resolution very soon to what happened in January. X I have to go now but I?ll come back tomorrow and we can chat about blood clotting. Have you read Lesley Regan?s book on MC? There is a large section on blood clotting and on most things.

oh jules poor you.
rant away.

herbaceous - what a battle! you poor thing.

mrsmclovely - at return to mothership!!!!

Beckle - WOW!!!!!!!!!

Basilbrush - hope you are feeling even slightly better.

everyone else (lol). i have read your posts and am thinkng of you, just struggling to reply to everyone. eek.

It is my month anniversary today but i don't feel as bad as i did yesterday (I saw my cousellor/friend today and she was lovely... I'm actually managing to cover ground i've never managed to with other counsellors and therapists!!!!)

i keep leaving it too long between visits here and find it overwhelming to catch up. must try harder, you lades have been my lifeline!!!!!!

Girls - am sitting here with large glass of wine with tears rolling down my face at what some of you have been through, especially jules and herbaceous

I am humbled, i am shocked, i am angry - it is SO BLOODY UNFAIR!!