TTC Super Ovulation...

[duggs1976]

hey ladies,

There are a few of us who are ttc after mc's, however there will be ladies out there who are also ttc for the first time or second or third without success. If anyone is on, considering or had success on a super ovulation programme then do join us. How long did it take ? Did you try IUI with it.. ? Did you have PCOS?

Kicking this off and hoping some of you will join....

ari Sorry about the consultation. But definitley don't give up. SO has got to give you double/triple the chances.
Every one on here has responded well to it as far as I can remember with it producing more follicles than what we would get naturally. So that's got to give you more of a chance.
I agree with you and duggs there are other methods which are working well for other Dr's. He has said clearly to others try from bfp instead! We are not all the same, one method is not going to work exactly the same for all of us. There has to be some tweaking in their treatment for women with different issues. That's how al these dr's have got to where they are with all their research by fine tuning and customising the drugs/timing etc. And he readily admits some of this treatment (like Hydroxy for extra immune suppressant) is experimental at the moment. So it's all ongoing.
Sorry but it's too much of a conincidence with your getting bfp so easily before, a matter of a few months away. Now nothing!
If it was me I would take pred couple of days after bfp like your doing and start SO and see where that takes you for a few months. The re-evaluate things. If anthing the scanning on SO will give you an insight into womb lining and anything else which might be going on in there.

Jeez we are due some good news I think.

Thanks ladies .. well I talked to DP last night (he didn't come with me to the appt because .. he was going to football. Sigh.) and he's still adamant IVF isn't an option as it's too expensive. I told him I said I would give SO the 6 months, he didn't comment. Honestly he's a brick wall sometimes, most of the time actually, I have no idea what his thoughts on all of this are although I know he's not happy with me putting yet more drugs into my body. shrug

I don't believe in coincidence, like you say snoopy, but Mr S was absolutely adamant that a woman's fertility can drop right off virtually overnight, and that's what he believes has happened. The fact that I was on the higher dose pred at the time he believes has nothing to do with it. It seems unbelievable to me, but we'll see I guess. I'm going to carry on laying off the pred unless I get a bfp, then I'll take it. Then I'll be able to see what effect that has on my AFs, if it makes no difference then I guess Mr S is right. I'm not giving up just yet, but I'll see what happens in the next 6 months. Who knows, we might win the Lottery and then I can go the IVF route :)

And you're absolutely right snoopy, we are overdue some good news!

Just been reading BC and when Lisa went to Dr S recently he has put her on from bfp as she was really struggling with pred?????!!! and as far as I can tell she told him about similar prob as you with af lasting only 2 days and v light????!!!!!!!!!!

Your DP ........ surely if you are able to cope with drugs then that's up to you?

Yep, I had that in the back of my mind when Mr S told me he hadn't heard of anyone else claiming the steroids have affected their AFs, there were a couple of ladies on BC who said Mr S agreed they should take from BFP since they were having problems with the pred affecting their AFs. I just didn't feel it was worth pursuing the point after a while, since he was so clearly not prepared to listen. And my DP ... well, like I say, it's really very difficult to ever know what he really thinks, since he never ever says. A brick wall would give more feedback :)

I know what you mean about Dr as you kind of don't want to piss him off when he knows we've probably got the info from either googling or these websites dicussing him. I've had to bite my lip a couple of times before I've mentioned "yes but I know of a lady whom blah blah...." Whoops! don't think he'd be impressed.
Sounds like a difficult situation with DP. Do you have children together or would this be a first for him? Sorry tell me to hop it if being too nosey

Ah, that's the difficult bit. I have my DD but she's from my ex and although my DP loves her to bits, he has no children of his own. This would be his first. But unfortunately for me, because I had DD later on in life as it was, she has no cousins anywhere near her age either, no brothers or sisters, no family at all that are anywhere near her age. I really really wanted a sibling for her, just so that she has someone for herself, and it being DP's child as well would be perfect. Oh well, life doesn't always deal us the cards we want, right? And you're not nosy :)

jaffa how are you doing today? Still smarting from the injection? When do you get your NK cell results back from Mr S?

Hello!! Just popped over from pred thread - thanks for the link sue
Nice to see some familiar names and hear from people in the same situation.
I'm due to start the SO programme next week. Had 4 months on steroids with no bfp and only 1 positive on opk!! If this doesnt work think I'll have to start steroids from bfp or it will be ivf!!
Ive had 4 miscarriages, all between 6-9 weeks - heartbeat seen with all. Cant seem to get past 9 weeks. Tested positive for Very high NKC.
Sorry to hear about your appointment with Mr.S Ari - Im with you though, the steroids have definately messed up my cycle - he said the same to me though! Like you said he is the expert but its soooooo frustrating!!

Sorry to hear about your loss jaffa

xxx

buster I do wonder how many people he has to hear from who have had problems when taking steroids, either that their AF or cycle is messed up, they've stopped ovulating, or they've stopped getting pregnant when previously they used to easily, before he actually starts investigating the possibility there might be something in this? I understand the age thing with me could well be an issue (although it does make me see a little red that I've raised this with him at every single meeting I've had with him and he's always discounted it, saying if I'm still ovulating then it's not a problem), but I honestly think it's not that - or maybe not just that, I don't know. I can't help feeling if it is the steroids causing problems, then I have just potentially wasted the last 7-8 months of possibly healthy reproductive life experimenting with the steroids. I absolutely do take the point that without treatment for NK cells any baby I was lucky to start off would have ended in miscarriage, but I wish to goodness I had only started them from BFP, as Prof. Q does with her clients.

Anyway, does no good my ranting (and apologies for taking up this thread with my my whinge-fest, I didn't mean to take over), it's not going to give me back the last 7-8 months and I can only try with whatever little time is left to me, fertility-wise. As I said, I'll give it the 6 months and then see where we are. If we're still baby-less, as I suspect Mr S expects we will be, then I guess that will be it. I'm currently hoping for a DHEA-fuelled miracle! :)

Hi buster It will be interesting to see what SO does for you as you've hardly ovulated in last 4 months Were you oving regularly before that?

ari yes life doesn't work out at all how you imagined. 2nd marriage for me and DS was conceived at 36 (with no 2 DH) can't believe I'm involved in all this. thankfully DH is very supportive, albeit prob hacked off with my moaning about symptoms etc. It would be wonderful fro DS to have a sibling as he's so caring of little ones and would be over the moon at a brother or sister. He used to often cry about it. He hasn't done it for a while maybe he's getting used to the idea of not having any as he's getting older. Blesss his little heart .

My big boy is off to Beavers tonight for first time... dib dib dib

Such a pain we can't get access to Prof Q's results yet......

Hey Ari so sorry to hear the appointment didn't go well and if you can't have a little whinge on here where can you! We all have our moments and are hear to listen and help if we can. I have only taken the pred and letrezole for one cycle so far and my last two cycles since I took them have had lots of spotting and only one day of proper flow so if it isn't down to one of these drugs I don't know what it is. I wonder why he is so adamant that your light flow isn't being caused by this, would you consider maybe going to see somebody else for a second opinion?
As Duggs said though don't give up hope as the gonal f is a powerful drug and might just to do the job.

Hi Buster sorry you are in this situation but welcome to the super ov thread. I never have any luck with the opk's but I think that is down to my pcos. Thought I wasn't ovulating but by doing a temperature thing I found out I was ovulating every month so it could be that they just don't work very well for you?

I was lurking on the pred thread and I saw you were asking about why we have to take clexane Duggs when we have no clotting issues. I asked Louise and she told me it helps with implantation.

I see lots of people are supplementing thier vitamins with different things rather than jsut what Mr S advises. I think it was Sue who said that in the States they advise you to take a high dose of fish oils for the omega and was wondering if anyone is taking a higher dose than jsut the one in Pregnacare?

I just wanted to pop back and see how you are all doing. I am 6 weeks from my last Letrozole cycle now and feel so much better for it. I didn't realise quite how crap it was making me feel until I wasn't on it anymore.

Ari I'm sorry that you had a rubbish appointment. I've left my thoughts on the other thread.

Jaffa I am so sorry to hear about your MC.

duggs how annoying. I think we are due some kind of fanfare after all we have been through to get PG!

kittens I think that's fine. Some drs start on day 3 anyway. I wouldn't bother moving your scan - the timing it is not an exact science anyway (or at least it never was in my case).

Jaffa I decided to push back IVF as the thought of it was really freaking me out. We are trying IUI in the meantime. I had my first insemination yesterday. Mr euro's sample wasn't great unfortunately (his worst yet). Not sure if there is a problem there or whether we should just put it down to him having a cold. But there were a few million sperm there, and they have been chauffeur driven (as someone else put it on another thread) close to the egg, so all is not lost. And when I had my pre IUI scan, I had 2 17mm follies on one ovary, which is better than I was managing on Letrozole! I'm still not getting my hopes up as this is cycle 18 for us and I think there must be more to our problems than a sperm count that is on the low side, and IUI only has around a 10% success rate. TBH at this point I don't want to raise my hopes as if I do the disappointment when AF arrives would just be too much. Plus we have prepaid for a block of 3 cycles and I like to get my money's worth! I'm kidding of course - it will be worth every penny if this gets me duffed.

pebbles Well I would consider going to see someone else, except that my health insurance won't fund fertility-related issues, only recurrent miscarriage ones, and no doubt I'd have to start all over again with a new consultant. I am also wary that no doubt they'll say the same thing - I'm just too old, and the high FSH (albeit it's not stupid-high) and low oestrogen points to peri-menopause. I'll do the SO thing, and see what happens.

Re the Omega thing - I for one am on a higher dose, yes; I take 1000mg a day. I believe some are on an even higher dose. Mr S actually advised me to take a separate Omega 3 supplement when I first saw him, although he didn't recommend a dose.

Aww snoopy Beavers ... they look so cute in their uniforms! I actually just tried to get my DD into Beavers (our packs round here accept girls) or Rainbows but was told for both that the waiting lists are so long she would be 7 before she got in, and so would actually then be supposed to be in Cubs/Brownies! So I might just as well put her name on the massive waiting list for Cubs/Brownies right now.

euro Fingers crossed you're one of the 10% :) Was Letrozole really so hard on your system? What did it do to you? Does it have side effects for everyone? Mind you, doesn't everything??!

Ari I am really surprised Mr S said that you couldnt take preds from BFP as he told me it was up to me if I wanted to but only once the hydroxy had kicked in. If I was you I would stop the preds until a BFP but continue wioth the hydroxy as I am still sure they stopped me from ovulating. You have nothing to lose if he is saying you will have trouble conceiving.
I also didnt have any smiley faces Buster once I started taking the preds so I am 100% sure it messed my cycles. Mr S also told me fertility could drop off overnight and they did a progesterone test to see if I had OVd that month (december). It came back as a negative but I had already conceived without knowing!!! It just goes to show you that they dont always know best so Ari go by your gut feeling.
Ari you can try and reduce your FSH level by acupuncture but I think you might be doing that already. My DH is the same as yours - we constantly have arguments about the cost of treatment and what the drugs are doing to me. He is happy to just have our DD but I also want and understand the need for a sibling. I have said I want IVF with CGH if no result by September but I will need to work extra to pay for it as he doesnt want to (talk about putting extra pressure on me when TTC!). He doesnt understand that we need to move fast!

I found the letrozole made me spotty and sweaty at night! Combined with the moonface and facial hair of the preds I could do a good impression of the She Devil!

Fingers crossed euro

I have never tried temping pebbles Ive only used the sticks since starting the steroids really. Maybe I should invest in a thermometer - would certainly be cheaper!!

snoopy - Had 4 pregnancies in 2 years, not massively fertile but not terrible. As I hadnt really used the sticks before not sure if I ovulated every month prior to the steroids. My cycle used to be 32 days, now 38 days. I used to go on changes in my mucous, which seemed to work. That has changed too since starting the steroids.

Ive increased my omega 3 to 3000mg flax seed oil. Ive also increased my vitamins and minerals too. Kept on the extra vit D and aspirin that Mr.S recommends.

xx

sue Mr S didn't say I couldn't try steroids from BFP, I didn't bother asking him the question in the end as he was so very anti my stance that the steroids have affected my AF. Acupuncture yes, I've been doing since August last year and it did help my cycles recover fast after my MCs. Sorry to hear you have the same issues with your DH that I have with DP; I'm sure they just don't get it, no matter how nice they are!

Oh how nice ... the Letrozole makes you spotty? DHEA has the same effect, so I'm going to look just dandy with the two of them in my system!

Ari Its a surprise that our men can even get in the mood to do SWI with the state we must all look! Fat, hairy, spotty, sweaty and moody! Its like being a teenager again! We tend to have an argument and then the following day he will talk a bit about it but you are right I dont think they do understand our burning desire to have a/another baby.

I think Mr S is having a lot of us saying that the steroids are affecting cycles but he said to me it was unusual but he was aware of it. Thats why some of his patients dont take them plus some people have really bad side effects. He did say thought that some of the people that are being affected by lighter periods could be perimenopausal and that it could be a coincedence. I suppose that some of us are the wrong side of 35 so that it could be a cause but I still think its a bit strange so many of us are experiencing the same thing as soon as we take steroids.

Buster I couldnt get on with temping as you have to take it the same time of day every morning before you even speak or get up. It was impossible as I am normally woken up by DD. Alcohol and late/interrupted nights also affect it as do colds and illnesses. For me, thats why I decided to do SO as I had no idea when I OVd until having the scans. I found the temping put more stress on me as I was setting an alarm to wake up and then couldnt get back to sleep. If we were out for the night I felt like I had to be home by a certain time to go to bed!

I have got a Clearblue fertility monitor but that never seemed to work properly either as 2 of the times I got pregnant it didnt even detect ovulation! I find if I SWI every other day from day 7 to period that is the best way of conceiving (v tiring though).

I think someone was asking about Omega 3 - I have copied some of the message that Lisa who was on this board sent to me:
A friend did some research and found that in parts of the USA they recommend fish oils for NK Cells, 620mgs DHA 1200mgs EPA thats about 2-3 1100mg capsules. Vitamin D is supposed to control aggressive cytokines. There is also a Fertility Show in London but not until the 3-4 November at Olympia.

I'm glad someone else has admitted to alcohol interferring with temping! Never had the guts to admit thats why I've never done it, (me being too weak willed with the grape!!)
Thanks sue

Buster I've temped for ages - about a year now. It is much cheaper than ov sticks. The BBT thermometers are about £4 from Amazon or ebay and the basic Fertility friend membership is free.

Ari I wouldn't worry about my reaction to it. The Pill did the same thing to me - I spent months going to bed every night thinking about ways to kill myself in my early 20s. I stopped taking it and ta-dah felt absolutely fine almost straight away. I almost dropped out of university because I felt so sh1t so I am very glad I stopped it when I did. That is not the average reaction to it! I just react strangely to anything hormonal. Which is, tbh, one of the reasons IVF freaks me out so much. I am worried what kind of monster I might become on all those drugs! this is also why I repeat to anyone who will listen that depression is caused by a chemical reaction in the brain and is really a physical condition as much as a mental one.

Mr S told me to take Omega 3 too. He suggested the ones you can find combined with Pregnacare. Not sure what the dose is.

snoopy before I became a miserable boring teetoteller, I used to drink and temp. If it did affect my temps I can't say I noticed. I always had a biphasic pattern emerge. And I'm quite a restless sleeper too. It's only really the days around ov where you might want to be quite careful about getting it right and after a few cycles you will probably know pretty well when this is. For example, at weekends, I will often sleep late. Most of the time, I will just temp whenever I wake up and FF will give me a white circle to indicate this temp might not be accurate because it was taken at an odd time. It's only if I am expecting to ov over a weekend that I will set an alarm for my usual time and then go back to sleep!

Good Luck with the IUI euro presume you've just got to test in 14days?

You experince of hormonal type drugs sounds awful. Thank God over the yrs you've come to recognise the trigger ones.... no wonder your pleased to be off the Letrozole and weird how your follilces were better off it. You must have taken something to get 2 though? Did he put you on some alternative?

Thanks snoopy. This cycle was completely unmedicated. I guess it just happens sometimes. After all, that is how you get non-identical twins. I have twins on both sides of the family. My gran on my dad's side is a non-id twin and my mum was pg with twins after me but she mc'd (so we never got to know if they were identical or non-identical). So I think it is just one of those freak things that happens occasionally. And of course, I don't know whether both follies popped, just that there were two dominant follies at 17mm.

Yes, it's the normal 2ww now. But as my luteal phase is under 14 days, I doubt I will have to wait that long!

So does that mean Ari you have been able to get the appointments with Mr S through your health insurance? It is a pain having to go through everything again with somone else! Thanks for the info on the omeaga 3 Ari & Sue I am currently just taking the one with Pregnacare as advised by Mr S but maybe I should up my dosage.

I found the Letrezole didn't make me spotty (prob becuase I am anyway!) but had the night sweats which am currently having with my down regulation. God it all gets so tiring sometimes!!

Snoopy i am not good at giving the wine up, still having the odd couple of glasses now. The ivf nurses have said to me before it doesn't hurt to have the odd one and if it helps you relax then don't stress over it. Have done ivf cycles where have given up everything from tea to alcohol and ones where just have de-caff tea and the odd glass of wine and still got a positive. I think its a case of everything in moderation. :)

Gosh it sounds like you had a nightmare with the pill euro and can understand why you are sceptical about ivf. Hopefully you won't need it and good luck with the iui.

Mostly pebbles, yes, my insurance has paid for all my consultations so far and everything else that I could pass off as being related to recurrent miscarriage investigations. However, obviously the SO scans/consultations I'll have to pay for, as there's no way they're going to believe that's to do with my miscarriages!

I confess I rebelled and had some Doritos this lunchtime. I thought I've been trying to only eat healthily for months now (not that I was ever an unhealthy eater particularly, but you know what I mean) as you hear of people saying they gave up all sugar, coffee, etc and then conceived but you know, it does get to the point where you wonder at your quality of life. Yes I'd give a lot to have a baby, but given that nothing's worked up to now I do wonder how much what I've been doing has actually had any useful effect. I think of when I fell pg with DD - I wasn't carefully watching everything I ate and drank, and the only supplements I ever took were a multivit and one EPO capsule a day which I've always taken. Didn't stop me getting pregnant then, and I didn't eat any differently to how I do now. Of course I didn't have thyroid and NKC issues then, but still. Grumble grumble.

euro so when are you likely to be testing? I'm actually quite excited at the thought you might spontaneously end up with twins, unmedicated and au naturel! :)